OPINION - Brooks and Capehart 6/11/2021

"Brooks and Capehart on Biden at the G-7 summit, the Justice Department under Trump" PBS NewsHour 6/11/2021

SUMMARY:  New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including President Biden at the G-7 summit, the Justice Department under the Trump administration, and how redistricting will impact the nation's political makeup.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  And to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.  That is New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington Post.

And they are in person here with me.

David Brooks, New York Times:  We're here.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  I can touch you.  Actually, you're in the studio.  This is exciting.  I have got to figure out how I'm going to get through this conversation.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  It's so weird to be doing it while wearing shoes.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  Unusual.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  Exactly, instead of our house slippers.

So much to talk about.

And, Jonathan, let's just quickly pick up with where Dan Bush left off.

Texas, really important decision for them to make about these new districts.  They have got to figure out how to draw those lines.  What is at stake?  With the Congress so evenly divided, what's at stake here?

Jonathan Capehart, Washington Post:  What's at stake is the majority for the Congress, whether the — excuse me — whether the Democrats will maintain their very slim majority or, as a result of redistricting, not just in Texas, but around the country, whether the lines will be drawn in such a way that gives an advantage to Republicans going into the 2022 midterms before a vote has even been cast.

And, you know, with Texas, the influx of people, the population growing, a lot of them in the urban centers that went for Democratic candidates, and yet the way the districts can be drawn, that voting power very well might end up resulting in districts that would be drawn for Republicans to do better in.

Judy Woodruff:  So, what — how can Democrats counter this, David?  How do you see this shaking out, given what's going on in…

David Brooks:  Yes, I think prayer would help.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  You know, I think the Democrats I talk to want to maintain the House.  They don't expect to.

Jonathan Capehart:  Yes.

David Brooks:  As I would — they would — somebody said, it would take a miracle.

Miracles could happen.  And it could happen.  But in midterm elections, when one party controls both houses of Congress and the White House, then their records in these first midterms tends to be terrible.

And then there's the population shift, which we have been hearing about.  That, by itself, is probably enough to get the Republicans four or five, six, seven seats.  And then there's the redrawing of the lines.  And Republicans just control a lot more state legislatures.

Now, I should say, I'm more focused on population shifts than on gerrymandering, because, while I think these lines, these — the legislatures draw our gross and unwieldy, and it's the politicians selecting the voters, I don't think the effect is that big.

In the middle of the 20th century, you had a big effect where Democrats had a natural advantage, because of the way they drew the lines.  Then, in the early 20th century, the Republicans had a pretty big effect, maybe 20 more seats than you would think from their vote totals.

But, recently, it's been a pretty small effect.  It's been in the single digits.  So — and that's in part because half the states, it's not partisanly drawn.  And so…

Judy Woodruff:  For different reasons.

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, what we have happening here is, it's not just redistricting.  We have what I call a perfect storm brewing.

You have got redistricting, on top of voter laws that have been voted into Georgia, Florida.  Texas, Democrats did a dramatic move to keep their law from going into effect, but a special session will be called, and those laws might well go through.  Iowa.  Arizona.

And so those laws being put in place.  Democrats call them voter suppression laws.  They will keep people, primarily Black and brown people, the young, from getting out to vote.  Not every — not every eligible voter will be able to vote and not — every legally cast vote might not be counted.  And that's what's at danger — in danger as well.

Judy Woodruff:  And all this getting more attention.  Usually, we're waiting for census data, waiting to see what each state does, certainly in the spotlight.

Let's turn, David, to our lead tonight.  And that is President Biden in Europe meeting with the British prime minister, meeting with his counterparts in the so-called G7.

What is — why does this trip matter for him?  What does he need to do?

David Brooks:  Well, he needs to show that America is back.  And he — and back and cooperating with people.  And I have traveled on delegations he's made to Munich to the Security Conference they have there.  And what you see is, he's on first-name basis with everybody, like, with the world leaders, with the doormen in the hotel.  He's been doing it for so long.  And so I think there's a little of that personal diplomacy.

And I think they're proud of the fact they got this vaccine thing done.  I spoke to a White House official today.  And they said the last four weeks have really been a sprint to get this, so we could offer half-a-billion vaccines and get our allies to another…

Judy Woodruff:  Huge number.

David Brooks:  ....  another half-a-billion.

And that will all be done by the middle of the next year.  And so they are surprised they could get to this.  They thought we would not be in a state where we had so many vaccines, we would have enough to buy and then share with the world.  And I think they want to show that we're in the generosity business again, and that America can be a generous nation in the world, a little Marshall Plan.

And I think they'd love to get to a spot where it's not a nation-by-nation fight against COVID.  It's a little more of an interdependent global fight against COVID.  And so they're pleased with that.

They are under no illusions that American-European relations are going to go back to the way they used to be in the Cold War.  That's not going to happen.  But they're very pleased, and I think legitimately so.

Judy Woodruff:  How do you see the way — what is at stake for Biden and his agenda here and globally?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, I think, to your point, the President knows all of these people.  He was a senator for 36 years, Vice President for eight years.

Yes, he is on a first-name basis.  His mantra is, America is back.  But there's a piece in, I think it was The Times of London asking the question, OK, but do the words match the deeds?

And I do think that there's some skepticism in Europe about whether the President's focus on China, whether that's taking attention away from them, whether the President, President Biden, is continuing former President Trump's policies vis-a-vis China.  Think of tariffs.

Judy Woodruff:  Yes.

Jonathan Capehart:  And then other things that Vice President Biden is doing that former President Trump talked about, withdrawing from Afghanistan.

So I think what we're seeing, yes, it's not going to go back to the way it was.  And I do think that the world now is, like, they're happy the United States is back in the fold, but I think they have figured out over the last four years, we can't really depend on the United States, especially when it comes to — President Biden's mantra is also democracy.  We have to show that democracy works.

But those world leaders are watching what we're doing here, the last conversation we had about voting rights.  How can you have a democracy if voting rights are at risk?

Judy Woodruff:  So, it's — David, it's the pandemic that has shifted the landscape, of course, but it's also the Trump — the four years of Donald Trump.

David Brooks:  Yes, PTSD, they have got, whatever, post-traumatic Trump is.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  They wonder if this four years is an interregnum, and that Trump will be back.  They wonder if a Trump-like figure will be back.

And so they — there's some sense America's fundamentally less stable.  And then we are more America first.  I mean, Biden is not as America first as Trump was, but you look at our purchasing decisions as a government, it's America first.  And we're just living in a world where multilateral cooperation is less emphasized, frankly, from a lot of countries all at once.

And that has just been a trend of the last 25 years, as nationalism has become a stronger force in the world and across the West and in Asia.  And, somehow, there's just been a deterioration in our willingness to cooperate on a whole range of fronts.

Judy Woodruff:  Harder, in other words.

Jonathan, I hear you saying this is harder than one might have expected coming out of Trump and — President Trump and assuming everything's going to be easier for President Biden globally.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right, harder.

But I think, from President Biden's perspective, for someone who knows all of these people, I think he's counting on and banking on the fact that those relationships will help smooth over some of the harder things that they have to deal with.

And you know what?  If I were President Biden, I would think that my chances, my odds were good, not great, but good.

David Brooks:  We have been on a lot of calls with Biden administration officials, and they're weirdly normal.  It's like democracy is in crisis, the world's falling apart.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  But they're like as if it's like 1955.  It's like, no, no, no, everything — we will cooperate, we will compromise, we will have these civil discussions.

And I don't know if they're just putting that face on that we live in a normal world anymore, but they're very normal.

Jonathan Capehart:  I think they would probably say — yes, they are very normal.

But I what I take from that is, you know what?  These are people who are competent.  They have been in these jobs before.  They know what the pitfalls are.  And they also know that everything is on fire, but at least they know the terrain.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, speaking of everything being on fire, David, in the last few days, we have learned that the Trump administration was trying in a number of ways that we find now surprising to seize data from not just journalists — and that's been in the news — but Democratic members of Congress, going after their cell phone records, the data, and their family members, even children.

We have now got an investigation under way.  What does this tell us about what was going on under President Trump?

David Brooks:  Yes, the Trump Justice Department keeps looking worse and worse, even more — worse than it was when it was in office.

When there's a leak of confidential information, there's going to be an investigation.  We understand that.  But they tried an investigation.  They didn't dig up anything on the people they wanted to get, Adam Schiff and people like that.

And so they relaunched another investigation using extremely aggressive means.  And prosecutors or investigators have some discretion over how aggressive they're going to be.  And I would say they got so aggressive, not only so aggressive, that it's super invasive to those of us in the media and people in Congress.

But it just looks like a political witch-hunt.  And Donald Trump is out there in public saying Adam Schiff should be investigated.  And, lo and behold, the people in the Justice Department take political orders.  And that's not what they're supposed to do.  The Justice Department, it's never pure, but it's always supposed to be a step removed from politics, so we have some sense of justice.

Judy Woodruff:  Is this something, Jonathan, that President Trump can be held accountable for, ultimately?  I mean…

Jonathan Capehart:  I mean, that, I don't know.  I mean, I really don't know.  I can't see — as much as everyone — and I shouldn't say everyone — a lot of Democrats and people who had a lot of problems with Donald Trump, they would love to be able to say, oh, this is what's going to take them down, meaning send him to jail, hold him accountable.

I'm not sure.  But, again, I'm not surprised.  It's sort of like you're shocked, but you're not shocked, because we watched this in real time.  The one thing about Donald Trump, he allowed our imaginations to go wild, because, if you let them go wild, you actually kind of know what's happening.

And this story, to my mind, is that situation of, when you're imagining — when reality catches up with your imagination.

Judy Woodruff:  He was publicly going after Adam Schiff.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right.

Judy Woodruff:  He was speaking about him, tweeting about him.  Eric Swalwell.  Well, I mean, these are — but to be using your Justice Department, the Justice Department that belongs to the American people, this way…

Jonathan Capehart:  Look, I would hope, I would hope, if proof is found that he directly ordered the Attorney General to do these things, then, absolutely, he should be held accountable.

But I don't see — I just don't see it happening at this point right now, given what we know.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, one thing's for sure.  We are thrilled that the two of you are here in the studio.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  And I know everybody watching is too.

Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks, thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

David Brooks:  It's good to be with you, Judy.

(CROSSTALK)

Judy Woodruff:  Thank you both.  Really good to see you both.  Thank you.

TRUMP - The Investigation of Abuse of Power

"Trump focuses anger at whistleblower as impeachment inquiry deepens" PBS NewsHour 9/30/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  President Trump acted as his own defender in chief on Monday, criticizing a whistleblower complaint, as some of his allies tried to argue that Democrats are rushing an impeachment inquiry.  But not all Republicans are defending the President, including his former Homeland Security adviser Tom Bossert.  Lisa Desjardins reports, then joins Yamiche Alcindor and Judy Woodruff for more.

"Pompeo, Democrats clash over whistleblower inquiry and documents" PBS NewsHour 10/1/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  While Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Tuesday pushed back on demands by House Democrats for testimony and documents related to the Ukraine investigation, Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley defended the whistleblower who filed a complaint about President Trump’s actions.  Lisa Desjardins and Yamiche Alcindor join Judy Woodruff for more developments.

"Why Barr asking foreign leaders for help in probe of U.S. agencies raises concerns" PBS NewsHour 10/1/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  According to The Washington Post, Attorney General William Barr has been personally visiting with foreign leaders to encourage them to help out with an investigation that President Trump hopes will discredit special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe.  William Brangham talks with Devlin Barrett of The Washington Post to untangle the many threads of the story.

"Democrats warn White House that time is up to produce documents" PBS NewsHour 10/2/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Top House Democrats sent a warning to the White House on Wednesday: Stonewalling the impeachment inquiry will be treated as grounds for impeachment itself.  Meanwhile, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo acknowledged for the first time that he was on a July call between President Trump and Ukraine’s president.  Yamiche Alcindor reports, then joins Lisa Desjardins and Judy Woodruff for more.

"How Republicans see the impeachment inquiry" PBS NewsHour 10/2/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Do Republicans believe President Trump’s conversation with Ukraine’s leader warrants an impeachment inquiry?  Judy Woodruff gets two perspectives from former Republican Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona and Chris Buskirk of American Greatness on the potential political ramifications.

"Trump shocks again by encouraging China to investigate the Bidens" PBS NewsHour 10/3/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  President Donald Trump is facing an impeachment inquiry because he urged Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son.  But Thursday, Trump said he would welcome similar involvement from another foreign power: China.  The admission comes as the two countries prepare for trade talks.  Judy Woodruff talks to Yamiche Alcindor and The Washington Post's Michael Kranish.

"Trump is suggesting foreign leaders investigate the Bidens.  Is that illegal?" PBS NewsHour 9/30/2019

COMMENT: I've done a bit of research on impeachment (not only Wikipedia), our Constitution does NOT require that a statuary law be violated to bring charges, it is up to Congress (the House) to define what 'high crimes and misdemeanors' are.

"The notion that only criminal conduct can constitute sufficient grounds for impeachment does not comport with either the views of the founders or with historical practice.  Alexander Hamilton, in Federalist 65, described impeachable offenses as arising from 'the misconduct of public men, or in other words from the abuse or violation of some public trust.'  Such offenses were 'political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself.'  According to this reasoning, impeachable conduct could include behavior that violates an official's duty to the country, even if such conduct is not necessarily a prosecutable offense.  Indeed, in the past both houses of Congress have given the phrase 'high Crimes and Misdemeanors' a broad reading, finding that impeachable offenses need not be limited to criminal conduct." - Wikipedia

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  What are the legal and national security implications of President Donald Trump’s encouraging foreign powers to investigate a potential political rival?  Judy Woodruff talks to Michael Mukasey, who was attorney general under former President George W. Bush, and Carrie Cordero, a former Justice Department and intelligence official who served in both Republican and Democratic administrations.

"Why talking to Ukrainian officials disproves the Trump narrative on Biden" PBS NewsHour 10/4/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Ukraine lies at the heart of the impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump, who has urged the country’s new President to investigate the Biden family.  Special correspondent Simon Ostrovsky, who has reported from the country for years, returns there to speak with officials and activists about what really happened with Joe and Hunter Biden, U.S. aid and Ukraine’s anti-corruption efforts.

OPINION - Shields and Brooks 9/27/2019

"Shields and Brooks on the politics of impeachment" PBS NewsHour 9/27/2019

REMINDER:  An 'impeachment inquiry' is just gathering evidence of the charge.  It takes a "Charge of Impeachment," presented to the House for a vote, to start actual impeachment.

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week’s political news, including the details of the phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s decision to open an impeachment inquiry into the matter and potential 2020 political reaction to impeachment.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  And now back in Washington, fallout from the whistle-blower's complaint, as the formal impeachment inquiry picks up steam.

And to help analyze this historic week, I'm joined by Shields and Brooks.  That is syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks.

Hello to both of you.

So much going on this week, but I think we know where to start.

And that is — David, looking back at this conversation that took place in July between President Trump, the President of Ukraine, the White House continues to say this is perfectly appropriate, the President said perfect, conversation with the leader of another country.  Democrats are saying it was a violation of his oath, an impeachable offense.

David Brooks, New York Times:  Yes.

I'm a little mystified.  I think they're sincere.  They thought it was exculpatory.  But I don't see how they could actually think that.

I mean, the crucial thing to do with that transcript is to look at the logic chain of the thing.  So Trump says, we have been very generous to you.  You haven't always been generous to us.  We have been more generous than the others.

And then — then that follows with, well, maybe you can do us a favor.  And that favor is to investigate the Bidens.

So when you just break down the logic chain, it's a very clear, we did this for you, you owe us, here's what you can do for us.

And that is — it's not an explicit quid pro quo, but it comes pretty close, I think.

Judy Woodruff:  Are there shades of questions here about what happened in that conversation, Mark, or is it clear-cut for you?

Mark Shields, syndicated columnist:  It's clear-cut, Judy.

I mean, what it puts to rest is the lie about the confidence of the Trump campaign:  We're leading in all polls.  We're ahead.

He was so terrified, so intimidated, the President of the United States got on the phone with the leader of Ukraine to get dirt on the one Democrat who in every major poll was beating him and that candidate's son.

I mean, this shows the terror, the intimidation.  And the false bravado is just totally exposed.  And it is — David — I think David was more than kind.  It is totally explicit.

This is a country, Judy, that has a smaller army than that of Sri Lanka.  I mean, it's sitting on the doorstep of Russia, that has shown nothing but imperial totalitarian impulses toward it, translated into physical action.  It's got an economy smaller than that of El Salvador.  And we're holding $451 million?

And the President of the United States — it's a supplicant, mendicant.  It's the boss to the lowest employee.  I mean, the power is totally disproportionate.  And anybody has to acknowledge that who sees it.

Judy Woodruff:  And, David, you still have Republicans, though, saying, highly appropriate for the United States to be saying to the leader of Ukraine, we want you to clean up corruption in your country, that was what…

David Brooks:  Yes.  Well, that is appropriate, I suppose, to say.

But the Republicans are not going to break on this.  And that's, I think, when — as we look at impeachment — I vaguely remember Watergate.  I was young.  But I remember a sense of gravity, a sense that we're stepping outside our party lines.  At least some people did that, Sam Ervin [D-NC], other people, Howard Baker [R-Tn].  And we're going to weigh the evidence.  And this is so serious, we can't just play normal politics.

That's not going to happen this time.  To me, this is already feeling like very normal politics, where the Democrats are going to be all here and the Republicans will be all here, and the idea of stepping outside your partisan affiliation for the sake of the truth, that's just not the way the game is played anymore.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, I want to ask you both about the role that the whistle-blower played in all this.

We learned several days ago that this is someone in the intelligence community, in the last few days, Mark, reporting, that it's an analyst at the CIA.  We don't have the name.  In fact, we're not supposed to have the name.  This person is supposed to be — identity is supposed to be protected.

But the President is calling this individual a spy, in effect, saying, this is somebody who's disloyal to the country.

Mark Shields:  Last week, the President branded the person a partisan hack, you will recall.  It's gone now to treachery.

I mean, the person who did it, Judy, assuming that it's a person of rational — and I think it's an intelligent and comprehensive and well-written complaint — had to know what he or she was putting at risk, in the hothouse in which we live here in Washington, that the identity will eventually be made public.

And I think it can only be revealed and described as act of great — of great courage to do so.

Judy Woodruff:  And pulling in, David, a number of other administration officials, which is what's launching the congressional…

David Brooks:  Yes.

That was the big thing I took away from the report, that it was — it's bigger than just one phone call.

Mark Shields:  Yes.

David Brooks:  It's partly the cover-up, but he said it was over a series of months.  There's a lot of people who were in a panic about this.

And so it's not just that one phone call, and then he heard about it.  But there was a process.  There were people who were freaked out about it.  And so there's a little more here than just one person who's going to be involved in this.

Mark Shields:  David's right, Judy, that he laid out a blueprint.

That's what the letter does and the statement does.  It's a blueprint to pursue investigation, to interview and expand.

Judy Woodruff:  And the fact that this person, what, spent four months, collected — talked to a number of different people.

Mark Shields:  Yes.

Judy Woodruff:  Didn't just rashly set this — set this out there and throw it out.

Mark Shields:  No.

Judy Woodruff:  But the question then comes down to is, David, the impeachment inquiry.

The House is doubling down.  We had Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence, on the program last night, saying, this is more serious than the Mueller report, which they spent months and months considering.

David Brooks:  Yes.

It's certainly narratively cleaner.  You can understand it, where Russia was much more complicated.  And, to me, the decision to do impeachment is a mistake.

They — I do agree Trump did something impeachable, but this is a political process, not a legal process.  There's no obligation to prosecute.

And, to me, it's a mistake for a couple reasons.  If your object is to get Donald Trump out of the White House, impeachment doesn't get you there, because the chance that you will get 20 senators, 20 Republican senators, to vote to vote Donald Trump out of office seems to me so remote, it's minuscule.

So the likely outcome of this is that Donald Trump will say, see, I was acquitted in the Senate.  I'm vindicated.  I beat these people.

And so he will get a little victory.  And then both parties will go into revolt.  And so that's the way it likely looks to end up.

In the meantime, you're trampling over your Democratic primary season.  You're not having the debate the voters want, which is about climate change and health care and jobs and stuff like that.

You're focusing all the attention on the Democratic side, or the bulk of it, to the Congress, not to the Presidential candidates.  And, to me, so what Pelosi has done, I think, here is taken a decision that has a very low chance of succeeding, to get him out of office, but has huge risks in ways we can't even imagine.

And so I'm a little nervous about where impeachment is going to get us.

Judy Woodruff:  You think the Democrats are doing the right thing, or not?

Mark Shields:  The Democrats are doing the only thing they can do.

I mean, what this President has done is not outrageous.  It's not indefensible.  It's criminal.  And that's what he's done.  He has totally abdicated, abrogated and corrupted his oath of office.

So when it comes to making this decision, I think the preeminent national American political leader of the 21st century is the Speaker of the House, more so than any President.  She single-handedly passed the Affordable Care Act.

She is the one major figure in the national firmament of any Presidential candidate who opposed the folly and the debacle and the tragedy of the war in Iraq.  She put at risk her majority to pass the Affordable Care Act, covering 17 million Americans, two million of whom have lost their coverage as a result of Donald Trump's policies in the last year alone.

And she knew she was losing the majority.  And she came back.  She has not — she has avoided the rush to join the pound-of-flesh club, let's get — get him for double-parking outside an orphanage on the Capitol — on Christmas Eve.

This is just too serious.  You can't turn your back on it.  I agree with David it may not be politically good timing, expedient.  It would be an act of total irresponsibility not to act when you have the evidence given to the Democrats.

Judy Woodruff:  How do you…

David Brooks:  Yes, there's this thing called the ethical responsibility.  What's the actual outcome of the decision?

And maybe she couldn't act, but she said, I will not do impeachment unless there's a bipartisan upswell of support for this.

And there's not that.  And that will never happen right now.

And so I think she was — she was forced into it by the pressure in her own party, their own caucus.  But the House is not the central question here.  The Senate is the central question here.  And it's the Senate that's going to give Trump this victory.

And, in the meantime, I just think she's given Trump the fight he wants, which is the fight against the congressional Democrats, not about policy, not about things that actually affect people's lives, but just a personality, reality TV role with inside the Beltway.

And, to me, that's the fight he wants.  I don't know where it'll go.  It'll spin wildly out of control over the next several months.  But it's — to me, it's not — the ethical responsibility is, what can I do to get Donald Trump out of the White House?  And this is not the right path, in my view.

Mark Shields:  I would say this, Judy, that, unlike David and perhaps Secretary Clinton, I do not believe people on the other side are irredeemable.

I really do believe that, when confronted with the evidence and the reality, and that this — we have seen just the beginning.  This is the tip of the camel's nose that we have seen.

I think…

Judy Woodruff:  You means in terms of…

Mark Shields:  Of what's gone on.

And I think, when people come and are under oath and are sworn to testify, I think we will find more.  And I think Republicans, at the core, are Americans before they're Republicans.  And, yes, there's a herd mentality and a silo attitude right now, but I do think that, when the — when the evidence becomes overwhelming, which I think it will be, I think they will act.

Judy Woodruff:  What do you think, David?  If not an impeachment inquiry, what should the — what should Democrats do?

David Brooks:  Well, they could have censured him and then say, let's have an election.  We're in an election year.  Let's have an election about this.

And then they can investigate and lay before the American people everything that's happened.  I think the inquiry is totally fine.  But let's not have this process swallow up an election year.

We have elections for a reason.  We happen to be in the middle one.  And let's do that.  And I think this election was a — it's a good moment for the Democratic Party.  It's an exciting election, a lot of ideas.

And to overshadow that, to me, a lot of people are going to take a look at this and say, well, we could have settled this with 100 million voters around the country or 100 millionaires in the Senate.  Who should have the power here?

Mark Shields:  He — this is question, Judy, of, he is asking, if not demanding and coercing, an ally, a subservient ally, let's be very frank about it — I mean, in the relationship between the United States and Ukraine, Ukraine is subservient to the United States on — in all candor.

He's asking them to interfere in an American election, to spill dirt on an opponent.

I mean, we can't have that.  I mean, we can't pretend that that's tolerable at all and, oh, we will just wait until the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary.

It's — I'm sorry.  It's just too grave.

Judy Woodruff:  Is there — is there something, David, that would make an impeachment inquiry the right thing to do, or is it — I mean, is there anything this President can do?

(CROSSTALK)

Judy Woodruff:  Yes, are you saying there's nothing that…

David Brooks:  No, I'm not saying that.

But I agree with Mark on the severity of what he did.  I'm not saying that he — I think he did an impeachable offense.  I'm just saying, look at our context.  And our context is, we're in the middle of an election year.  And we should not walk down a path that will lead ultimately to failure in 99 percent.

I really do not think — and Mark and I may disagree on this — that the Republican senators who hung with Donald Trump through Charlottesville, through three years of moral turpitude, of 1,000 outrages which we speak about on every Friday, I just don't think they're going to break with him.

And I don't think the Republican voters are going to break with him.  They will find some way.

Judy Woodruff:  And, Mark, what about that?

Mark Shields:  I guess I have more confidence in the Republicans than David does.

But I'd say — and I don't argue.

Judy Woodruff:  But, Mark — but let me just…

Mark Shields:  This is totally disruptive.  I mean, it's totally disruptive to the process.

David's right.  It totally intrudes and puts everything else aside.  But I will say this.  If you're picking sides in the Democrats, you want the Intelligence Committee.  You want it to be Adam Schiff against Devin Nunes.  I mean, that's a mismatch in talent.

Judy Woodruff:  And in just five seconds, you're saying it's worth it to go through with this even if the Senate does not vote to convict?  You're saying it's worth it?

Mark Shields:  Yes, it is.

I mean, we have — we cannot sit here and pretend that this didn't happen and that it's not serious, what this President has done.  And it should be disqualifying.

Judy Woodruff:  Mark Shields, David Brooks, thank you.

TRUMP AGENDA - Abuse of Presidential Power

This revelation that Trump, during a call about giving Ukraine aid and a new weapon system, 'requested' a favor to have Ukraine investigate a political rival IS, without doubt, abuse of Presidential Power.

Remember the scene from "The Godfather" where the Don's lawyer goes to Hollywood to 'request' that a producer make a movie staring the Don's 'friend?'  The next day the producer wakes up with the severed head of his race horse in his bed?  That's what Trump did, send his mob layer Rudy Giuliani to talk about investigating a political rival.

Trump used American diplomacy for his own personal political gain.  And his release of the memo of the call proves he did it.  Also the whistleblower’s complaint confirms and substantiates the crime.

For Republicans to continue to claim that this should not be looked into is just short of treason and of betrayal of their oath of office.

"Questions over possible abuse of power overshadow Trump’s agenda at UN" PBS NewsHour 9/23/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  After President Trump acknowledged that he spoke to Ukraine's president about investigating possible 2020 rival Joe Biden, he spent the day at the U.N. fending off questions about the potential abuse of power.  Meanwhile, the administration's refusal to share a whistleblower’s complaint is pushing some Democrats closer to the question of impeachment.  Yamiche Alcindor joins Judy Woodruff for more.

"Impeachment calls grow as Trump defends withholding Ukraine aid" PBS NewsHour 9/24/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  House Speaker Nancy Pelosi formally announced the beginning of an impeachment inquiry Tuesday after a whistleblower alleged that the President tried to force a foreign leader to aid his reelection.  At the United Nations, Trump faced questions about his own actions, and he seemed to confirm and defend the fact that he withheld hundreds of millions of dollars from Ukraine.  Lisa Desjardins reports.

"What spurred House Democrats to ramp up impeachment efforts?" PBS NewsHour 9/24/2019

NOTE:  An 'impeachment inquiry' is the equivalent of a Grand Jury officially gathering  evidence of a charge via subpoenas, etc.  To actually impeach requires a Charge of Impeachment be brought to the floor of the House for a vote.

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Tuesday announced an official impeachment inquiry -- but what exactly ramped up Democrats’ political momentum toward impeachment?  And what's next for President Trump and Republicans?  Yamiche Alcindor and Lisa Desjardins join William Brangham for a broader look at the latest developments.

"What lawmakers learned from Trump’s Ukraine call memo" PBS NewsHour 9/25/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  The release of a five-page memo describing President Trump's July phone call with Ukraine's president revealed new details of Trump’s actions regarding Ukraine.  The text shows that immediately after Volodymyr Zelensky brought up military aid, Trump asked him for "a favor."  Lisa Desjardins reports, then joins Yamiche Alcindor and Judy Woodruff for more on reactions from Trump and Congress.

And from Trump's personal defender......

"Justice Department found Trump didn’t commit a campaign finance crime raised by whistleblower" PBS NewsHour 9/25/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  According to the Justice Department, the original whistleblower account of President Trump’s actions on Ukraine raised the possibility of a criminal act by Trump, related to campaign finance.  But federal prosecutors reportedly decided that they could not identify a campaign finance violation from the two men's phone call.  John Yang learns more from Devlin Barrett of The Washington Post.

"How a President’s call to a foreign leader becomes a memo — and who gets to see it" PBS NewsHour 9/25/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  How does the White House capture a conversation between a President and another foreign leader?  And who gets to review that material afterward?  For more context on the phone conversation between President Trump and Zelensky, Judy Woodruff talks to Larry Pfeiffer, former senior director of the White House Situation Room.

"Whistleblower alleges White House tried to suppress Zelensky call details" PBS NewsHour 9/26/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  It was an explosive day on Capitol Hill, as a redacted version of the whistleblower letter was released publicly, and the acting director of national intelligence testified before the House Intelligence Committee about his handling of it.  Lisa Desjardins reports on what the whistleblower complaint describes, the role of Congress and how President Trump is responding to the developments.

"In private, Trump ‘lashing out’ about whistleblower complaint" PBS NewsHour 9/26/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Amid a political swirl over his interactions with the Ukrainian president, President Trump is denying the July phone call between the two leaders included anything improper.  But behind the scenes, Trump is “lashing out” in frustration that details of that call were communicated to the person who filed the whistleblower complaint.  Yamiche Alcindor joins Judy Woodruff to discuss the latest.

"Former DOJ official calls Trump’s Ukraine phone call ‘fundamentally wrong’" PBS NewsHour 9/26/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  John Carlin, who previously served as the top national security official at the Justice Department, joins Judy Woodruff to discuss why he finds the details of President Trump’s call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky so disturbing, and what it would mean if White House officials tried to suppress that information.

"Why the House is moving so quickly on Trump impeachment inquiry" PBS NewsHour 9/27/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  It has been a historic week for President Trump and Congress, with startling revelations about an intelligence community whistleblower’s complaint against the President ultimately leading to the launch of a House impeachment inquiry.  Yamiche Alcindor reports on the whirlwind of events and joins Judy Woodruff to discuss who besides Trump might be involved and how fast the investigation is moving.

"The legal framework protecting whistleblowers in the U.S." PBS NewsHour 9/29/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  The modern-day False Claims Act protects whistleblowers who point out fraud and abuse in government.  John Phillips, who helped author the law, joins Hari Sreenivasan to discuss the rights whistleblowers have.  Phillips is a founding partner at the law firm Phillips and Cohen and a former Ambassador to Italy under the Obama administration.

OPINION - Shields and Brooks 9/20/2019

"Shields and Brooks on the whistleblower complaint, Saudi oil attack" PBS NewsHour 9/20/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week’s political news, including reports of a whistleblower complaint that might involve President Trump, the debate about whether a sitting President can commit a crime and the U.S. response to attacks on Saudi oil facilities.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  And now we turn to the political analysis of Shields and Brooks.  That is syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks.

Hello to both of you.

Let's start with our lead story tonight.  And that is the whistle-blower from the intelligence community.

The word gets out — or this person is alleging that he that the President, in a conversation with — now we think it's the President of Ukraine, urged the president of Ukraine, Mark, to investigate Joe Biden's son.

And we have a — there's still no — the President denies it, and others do, but now we have several news outlets backing up the story.  And I was just handed — and you have seen it — a statement by Joe Biden.

He says:

"If these reports are true, there's truly no bottom to President Trump's willingness to abuse his power and abuse our country.  This behavior is particularly abhorrent because it exploits the foreign policy of our country and undermines our national security for political purposes."

How seriously should we be taking these allegations?

Mark Shields, syndicated columnist:  I think they're enormously serious.

And the fact that The Wall Street Journal is leading this story, along with The New York Times and The Washington Post, but this is not false or fake news or anything of the sort.  It's not a political vendetta of any sort.

And this is quite beyond a Playboy model or a frat party at an Ivy League school or anything of the sort.  This is really serious.  This is totally exploiting the national security, putting at risk the national security of the United States for narrow political, personal interests, if, in fact, the reports are true.

And I guess the most disturbing thing to me, Judy, was the President accused the whistle-blower, who, at enormous risk, and it required considerable courage, of being an extreme partisan, which means, (A) that somebody in the White House knows who the whistle-blower is.

This is mafia-like threats.  We know who you are.  And they have investigated his political affiliation or her political affiliation.  I mean, so, I think it's enormously grave.

Judy Woodruff:  And, in fact, the President — David, the President was saying today to the television cameras that people in the White House were making fun of all this.

Are we looking at something where it's going to be a he said/he said situation going forward?

David Brooks, New York Times:  Well, presumably, the call was listened to by others and recorded.  So, I'm not sure it was recorded, but it was certainly listened to.  These calls are not — it's not just a one-on-one call.  There's people on the line.

You know, I think it is pretty grave.  Most Presidents go into the White House thinking, I'm here to serve the office, I'm here to serve America.

Donald Trump is using America to serve him and American foreign policy to serve him.  And most Presidents go into the office thinking that the phrase my fellow Americans means something and that we have greater loyalty to our fellow Americans than we do the people in outside countries.

And he's basically using another country to be oppo research on his fellow American.

And I think this rises to more a level — I'm not sure this really is foundationally changing, but it rises to a different revel, if there's a connection between the foreign aid and the promise.

Judy Woodruff:  Right.

David Brooks:  That really is using — suborning U.S. government money for your own private gain.  And that's clearly corruption of a high order.

Judy Woodruff:  And, as both of you are saying, Mark, we don't know for a fact that this happened.  But the evidence is now building, the reporting is building.

And there are two strands.  It is urging the leader of another country to get involved in a political campaign, but then the quid pro quo, potentially.

Mark Shields:  No, exactly, Judy.

To say, look, be in touch with my Dr. Dirt, my oppo research guy, who once was America's mayor and is now doing smear jobs.

Judy Woodruff:  Rudy Giuliani.

Mark Shields:  Rudy Giuliani.  How the mighty have fallen to that point where he's an errand boy to be a hit man on political opponents.

No, David put it very well.  I mean, this is a total, total corruption of the — if it's valid and if it's accurate — and I think that the news reports are done very soberly, quite honestly, because they take their position — their mission seriously.

If it's true, Judy, then I don't see how the Democrats can back off on impeachment investigation.

Judy Woodruff:  And I want to ask you about that because this week, David, as both of you have pointed out, the President's lawyers were in court.

They were arguing against a New York lawsuit, an attempt to get the President's tax returns to be turned over, to be made public.  And the President's lawyers are saying you can't investigate a President while he's sitting in office.

What we're learning today in these reports about Ukraine raise questions about that.

David Brooks:  Yes, this was the Nixon defense with David Frost, that, if a President does it, it's not illegal.  And it didn't work for Nixon.  I'm not sure it would work for here.

I mean, a basic principle of our government is that no person is above the law.  And so I don't think that will work.

I am struck — I do think, if there's a link to the foreign aid, the Democrats obviously have to launch a different and new investigation.

I'm struck mostly by, when President Trump does something out in the open, or Rudy Giuliani does something out in the open, like, it doesn't become a big thing.  Now that we have something secret that the press have uncovered, suddenly, it blows up.

But Giuliani wasn't shy about this.  And the fall of Giuliani is one of the great stories of our age.  I covered him a lot when he was mayor, extremely brilliant, extremely sharp, not the man I see today.

The one continuity is that he would sit around with his staff and watch "The Godfather" movies over and over again.

Mark Shields:  Wow.

David Brooks:  And the mob behavior — this really is mob behavior.  It's like, let's dig up dirt on this guy.

That's the way it strikes me, more than anything else.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, and, again, Mark, with these — with the President's lawyers fighting back, which they have been — they have been fighting all these attempts to get any information turned over.

Mark Shields:  Right.

Judy Woodruff:  But this is the first time we have heard them argue a President can't be investigated.

Mark Shields:  Can't be investigated.

I agree with David about the Nixon defense.  Nixon, of course, invoked that defense in 1977, three years after he had been forced out, in an interview with David Frost.

But no President — he did prove that, and by his own statement and his own actions, that no President can be above the law.

And, no, I really think the gravity of this is yet to be fully appreciated.

TRUMP ABUSE OF POWER - The Whistleblower Complaint

"Amid whistleblower reports, what’s the state of U.S.-Ukraine relations?" PBS NewsHour 9/20/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Reports of a whistleblower complaint that might involve President Trump, potentially related to his conversations with the president of Ukraine, have raised myriad questions.  Yamiche Alcindor has the latest details, and for a look at the geopolitical angle of the story, Judy Woodruff speaks to Nina Jankowicz of the Wilson Center, an independent, non-partisan research institute.

"Why whistleblower standoff represents a ‘unique juncture’ for U.S. government" PBS NewsHour 9/20/2019

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Amid new reports of a whistleblower complaint that might involve President Trump and his interactions with a foreign leader, the President continues to deny any wrongdoing.  Judy Woodruff talks to Joel Brenner, who was the National Security Agency’s Inspector General under President George W. Bush, about why he expects Congress to investigate further.

TRUMP - The Shame of our Nation

The only 'fake news' comes from the Trump Administration and his puppet Republican Congress.  The 'main stream' media is the people's shield against abuse of power.