OPINION - Brooks and Capehart 12/3/2021

"Brooks and Capehart on the future of abortion rights, government funding brinkmanship" PBS NewsHour 12/3/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including the omicron variant, U.S. government funding, and a major abortion case before the Supreme Court.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  With the Omicron variant, a near government shutdown, and a major abortion case before the Supreme Court, it has been a busy week in Washington [DC].

To examine it all, we turn to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.  That is New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart.

Hello to both of you.

Jonathan Capehart, Washington Post:  Hi, Judy.

Judy Woodruff:  Haven't you both together in a long time.  It's good to have you here.

Let's start with the Supreme Court, Jonathan, that long awaited Mississippi abortion case, intense oral argument.  It was — once you started listening, it was hard to turn away.  A lot of people are saying they think they know what's going to happen based open that.

What did you make of it?

Jonathan Capehart:  You don't know what's going to happen based on the — based on those arguments.  We have been down this road before with the Affordable Care Act, when people listened to the or arguments and they thought for sure Obamacare [Republican name for ACA] was going to be the declared unconstitutional, and the decision came out months later, not the case.

But I do think that the concern, after listening to those oral arguments about the constant, what's going to happen to Roe v Wade, whether Roe v Wade will be overturned, is real and it's serious, primarily because, when Donald Trump was President, running for President, he said he would appoint justices to the court who would overturn Roe v Wade.

That was during the campaign.  He got three appointments to the bench.  There is now a 6-3 conservative majority.  And that is why, after listening to those oral arguments, I'm concerned and a lot of people are concerned that a constitutional right is — could be on the verge of being overturned.

And I think that's why Justice Sotomayor's question is the defining one for me, where she asks:  "Will this institution survive the stench this creates in the public perception that the Constitution and its reading are just political acts?"

Judy Woodruff:  A lot of people are quoting that "survive the stench" line.

David Brooks, New York Times:  Yes.

Well, I think Roe is in danger at some point.  Once the thought is expressed as clearly as it was expressed, I think, eventually, they're going to get around to it.

And I have, frankly, been someone who has always supported the overturning of Roe, not because I'm necessarily pro-life, but because I think the court should not decide it.  I think the legislatures, and it should be decided by the democratic process.

And I have always believed — I used to believe, I should say, that, if it went back to legislators, the legislators would settle where the American people have settled.  The majority of American people do not want to ban abortion.  They want to restrict it in some way.  And different states would restrict it.

And I have always assumed that we would wind up where Europe is, with tighter laws than we have, but not a ban.

I am no longer so sanguine that our political system can handle a massive debate over an incredibly hard, incredibly complicated question.  And I say that with the awareness that majorities don't seem to rule anymore.  Polarized minorities rule in our politics very often.

And so we may wind up, if Roe is overturned this year, next year with just vicious cultural, moral, political battles at a time when our democracy is extremely fragile.  And that has got to be worrying.

Judy Woodruff:  What do you see the ramifications, Jonathan?  We don't know what's going to happen.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right.

Judy Woodruff:  But if it goes in the direction it seems to be headed, even if it's something short of completely overturning Roe?

Jonathan Capehart:  Yes, the political ramifications are huge, and I think part of the reasons that David was talking about.

I mean, for Democrats, I'm sure — if we want to get baldly political, for Democrats it could be a way of galvanizing the base at a time when the midterm elections are coming.  Democratic voter turnout traditionally is lower during midterm elections.  And they could possibly be on the verge of losing the majority in the House.  For Republicans, this could be a galvanizing thing for them in 2022 and 2024.

But, in addition to all the things that David said, the question then becomes, it's also a very personal decision.  When we're talking about a woman's reproductive health, it isn't just whether — does she have access to abortion?

No, this is one of the most personal things that she might have to endure, or will have to endure.  And I look at the possibility of the overturning of that precedent, and I look at other precedents out there that could also — with a 6-3 conservative majority, that could also be in danger.

I'm thinking about Obergefell.  I could be looking at a possibility where my marriage could be nullified by the Supreme Court.

So…

Judy Woodruff:  Upholding same-sex marriage.

Jonathan Capehart:  Yes, upholding same-sex marriage.

So, what happens with the Mississippi case — in the Mississippi case, but also we haven't even talked about Texas.  And we're still waiting to hear what the court has to say about that, which actually has even more implications for, I think, things like same-sex marriage and other precedents.

Judy Woodruff:  David, your point about whether the country can withstand that kind of a — can the court withstand the perception that decisions are made based along party lines?

I know Justice Breyer and others have said, oh, no, that's not what's going on here.

David Brooks:  Yes, of course, those on the pro-life think the court got into this in 1973 with Roe and they politicized it, and they invented a right.  That would be the pro-life argument.

And since then, our court and our judicial nomination system has become hyper-divided, hyperpolarized, because — basically because of that issue.

Can the credibility of the court — Justice Breyer and Justice Barrett said, we're not political creatures.

Judy Woodruff:  Right.

David Brooks:  And, from their day-to-day perspective, that may appear to be true, because there are a lot of decisions that we don't talk about.  They're not the big major decisions that are 7-2, 8-1, 9-0.

But I have to say, when I reflect back on the big decisions that really make the headlines and really shift American history, from Bush v Gore on to what's about to come, I'm stunned by how incredibly easy to predict the votes based on their partisanship.

And so, on the big issues, I think the court has become quite predictable and quite partisan, like the rest of America.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, speaking of partisanship, Jonathan, the Congress this week — I guess the Democrats just barely got out of town, at least for the weekend, without having the government shut down.  They were able to reach agreement over government spending.

But what — the Democrats still have some — and the President still have some big agenda items before them this month.  What does it look like is going to happen?

(LAUGHTER)

Jonathan Capehart:  Chaos, Judy.  Chaos.

We have got — so we avoided a government shutdown, actually, a day early, if you really think about it.  But we now have a debt ceiling deadline, December 15, according to the Treasury Secretary.  The National Defense Reauthorization, that's supposed to be at the end of the year; Build Back Better, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer says, oh, we're going to get it done by the end of the year or Christmas.

OK.  Sure, if you say so.

But — and that's just, that's the stuff on the table.  You have got Republicans who, on all of these things, are — basically, they're not there.  They're not a governing partner.

The problem comes when you have got Democrats talking to Democrats, and especially with Build Back Better.  So I said chaos, I have no idea how this is going — how this is going to turn out.  But if it does turn out, it's just going to be messy, and it will bleed into next year, into 2022.

And that's a problem for Democrats, because — well, for the country, because, once we — once 2022 is on the calendar, everything is going to grind to a halt, because nobody's going to want to get anything done.

Judy Woodruff:  What does it look like to you?

David Brooks:  Yes, and I saw a quote, an unnamed quote from a Hill staffer, saying the odds of getting Build Back Better this year were like 20 or 25 percent.

So that — because you got to have CBO scoring.  You got to figure out what Joe Manchin wants.  And so that's — it would be very bad for Democrats.  Joe Biden was elected to be competent, to show it would be calm, we'd have a master — the hand on the tiller, blah, blah, blah.  And the longer Democrats go on, then the worse that claim looks.

But I would say one thing in defense of the Democrats.  (A) it's basically a 50/50 Congress.  That's hard.  (B) if you look back at American history, the Great Society took years to pass.  The New Deal took years to pass.  Our system was not built for speed.

What worries me most — and this is about the government shutdown — like, they're now capable of doing nursery school level legislative activities.  And you feel like they're just barely doing that.

I had a dentist once who was in my mouth and said:  "I'm on the edge of my skill level here."  And she is in my mouth.  And I'm like, "What?"

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  So, I feel like the skill level on Capitol Hill is not where it should be, because they don't have experience of successful legislation.

That — Teddy Kennedy did it.  Back in those days, they really know how to do this stuff.  And so that's the big worry to me.

Judy Woodruff:  That's an image Jonathan and I are going to keep in our — we're going to keep that in our minds.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  But members of Congress you know may remember the nursery school level.

David Brooks:  Oh.

Judy Woodruff:  The President, Jonathan, has one other thing on his plate right now.

And that, of course, is the is the variant, the new variant now.  On top of Delta, we have Omicron.  It's everywhere in the world.  It's in multiple states.  He's done a few things, travel ban.  We're going to have increased testing.

How does it look?  How does his management of this look?  How much is riding on his management of this?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, a lot is riding on his management of this, but I do think he is striking the right tone.

When we were talking about this last week, it was like, oh, my God, what is this thing?  It's super contagious.  I even mispronounced it because it was so new.

Judy Woodruff:  A lot of us did.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right.

But the President comes out and he says, don't panic.  Get vaccinated.  Get your booster.  Wear your mask, basically saying to the American people, look, we have the tools to be protected against this.

And I also think that the American people, after a year-and-a-half of doing this, no one wants to go into a shutdown, not the President, not — and certainly not the American people.  So we know how to protect ourselves.

So I think, if the President and the administration, as much as it can, project calm, but also clarity in what we need to do to protect ourselves from Omicron, he will be OK.

But, yes, everything is riding on this, because if we do get to a situation where he has to come to the American people and say, we have got to lock down again, even if it's for a good reason, I don't know how that's going to go over.

Judy Woodruff:  It was something the NIH Director, Francis Collins, who I talked to today, said it's something they don't want to do.

David Brooks:  Right.

And Francis said, we're not powerless.  I think that's the big story here.  We're not where we were a year ago.  And, to me, the best thing the administration has done is buy millions of doses of this Pfizer and Merck treatment regimes.  So, you get a positive test, you get five days, and you take 30 pills.  I think that's the Pfizer one.

And it has like an 85 percent of reducing — chance of reducing your hospitalization and death.  So that suggests we're going to enter a phase where we're not going to kill COVID the way we wish, but we're going to learn to live with it, the way we live with the flu.

And I think we're sort of at that point.  And we're going to — we're — if you're fully vaccinated and you're under 50, your odds are quite good.  It's still the folks who need the continued care.

And so I think we're just going to be in a country with a lot of COVID around for a long time.  But we have tools now to make it a lot safer.

Judy Woodruff:  We do have the tools.

And, again, Director Collins saying, if we — as you said, he said, we just need to keep doing what we do — doing what we know how to do, which is the testing and pills.

All right, we're going to leave it there.  Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks, so good to have you back again.

Thank you.

Jonathan Capehart:  Great to see you, Judy.

Judy Woodruff:  Thank you.

OPINION - Brooks and Capehart 7/23/2021

"Brooks and Capehart on Jan. 6 committee, infrastructure, budget, vaccine hesitancy" PBS NewsHour 7/23/2021

SUMMARY:  New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including the Jan.  6 insurrection investigation, the infrastructure and budget negotiations in Congress, and vaccination efforts in America.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  From aspirations around infrastructure to political cracks in the investigation into the insurrection, there is a lot to unpack with the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.

That is New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington Post.

Hello to both of you on this Friday.

Jonathan Capehart, Washington Post:  Thanks, Judy.

Judy Woodruff:  It's always so good to see you.

Let's start with the fireworks this week, David.  House Speaker Nancy Pelosi surprised, I think, a lot of people by saying, no, I'm not going to accept two of the five Republicans appointed to this January 6 select committee.  And then, in turn, you had Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader, saying, well, if you are going to do that, I'm going to pull the whole group.

What did you make of all this?  Does it move the process forward?  What do you think?

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks, New York Times:  No, it's round 947 of stupidity in Congress, I guess.

We had this commission.  The idea is, you each — in normal life, in a normal country, the two parties would get together, leaders would get together, and say, let's put — do this commission, important to understand.  We have a basic kind of person we want on this commission, the kind of people who is trusted by both sides, and then we will put some honorable people, trustworthy people on this commission.  And we will get to the answer.

But, of course, none of that obtains in this situation.  Pelosi and McCarthy never get together.  There are very few people trusted on both sides.  And then McCarthy takes the extraordinary step of appointing Jim Jordan and Jim Banks, two people who are explicitly opposed to the commission, and would clearly undermine it.

He could have picked any one of dozens of other people who would have been quiet and seemed sort of normal.  But this is like throwing it right in your face.  And Pelosi then takes another extraordinary step of not letting the Republicans pick their own people.

And so it's just one escalation of dysfunction after another.  And we're not going to get, at least out of Congress, a bipartisan investigation.

Judy Woodruff:  What did you make, Jonathan, of the arguments that each one of them was making here?  And where does that leave this whole thing?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, I just want to push back on something David just said, that Speaker Pelosi wouldn't let Leader McCarthy pick his own people.

He picked five people, or he picked — he picked Republican members.  Two of them, as you rightly said, were basically stink bombs in the process.  But he was given the opportunity to choose people.  He decided to throw a huge wrench in the process.

I think I have said it on this air.  And I'm going to say it again.  For Nancy Pelosi, for Speaker Pelosi, her faith in the Constitution is only second to her Catholic faith.  She takes her role as a constitutional officer in the United States government extremely seriously.

So, for her, getting to the bottom of why Americans storm the U.S. Capitol to overturn a free and fair election, at the behest of the then sitting President of the United States, is something that is important to her.  It is vital for the history of the country.

And so for Kevin McCarthy to do what he did, and then to blame her, blame her for — she's the reason why the Capitol Police weren't prepared, to me, listening to — listening to House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy had shades of — had flashbacks to Benghazi.

January 6 is the new Benghazi.  Speaker Pelosi is the new Hillary Clinton.  The Capitol — she didn't have the Capitol Police prepared enough is the Hillary Clinton gave a stand-down order.  It is theatrics on the part of Kevin McCarthy.  It is constitutional duty that Speaker Pelosi is trying to engage in.

Judy Woodruff:  David, Kevin McCarthy more to blame here than the speaker?

David Brooks:  I think, on balance, yes, more to blame.

I think Republicans should still get to pick, but, clearly, they would have screwed up the whole works.  Why did Jordan and Banks get picked?

Well, (A) it could have been so Nancy Pelosi would throw them off, and McCarthy could have a fit.  He must have foreseen that.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right.

David Brooks:  She's not going to — and, second [B], it's further regulatory about where the party is, that it's more a [Jim] Jordan party than it is a Cheney party, Liz Cheney.

And so the party is still over there.  And McCarthy is not an ideological person, but he probably knows where the center of his caucus is.

And just this afternoon, I read a piece in The New York Times by Michael Wolff, who's written three books on Donald Trump, just had dinner with him, saying he was certain Trump was going to run for President again.  And if he's going to run for President again, then I guess that's the center of the party, and that's what McCarthy has to genuflect to.

Judy Woodruff:  And, given that, Jonathan, that's — I mean he's — I mean, this is a minority leader of the party who is responding to the — in his view, the titular head of the Republican Party.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right, and also taking his cues where he thinks the base of the party is.

And then there's another golden rule to keep in mind.  I told you the golden rule about Speaker Pelosi.  Here's the golden rule about House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy.  Everything he says, everything he does is geared to one goal, becoming Speaker of the House.

That's why you see him doing what he's doing.

Judy Woodruff:  Infrastructure, our favorite subject.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  I know you're dying to talk about it.

Negotiators are still negotiating, David, but it looks like — the smoke signals look like something's going to happen.  Are you getting the sense that this is going to be a good thing?  What is your — how are you reading all this?

David Brooks:  We should have Thomas the Tank Engine to talk about infrastructure.  It would be more PBS-like.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  Wait a minute.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  In a good way.

You know, I think what's interesting to me is that there — for those who remember last week's episode, there are two bills.  There's a bipartisan bill that's smaller and infrastructure-y.  And then there's a partisan reconciliation bill that's more progressive.

One would have thought the partisan-only bill would have had smoother sailing, because it's all — just all Democrats.  But, to me, it looks like the bipartisan bill is progressing, progressing, progressing.  And we will know, of course, they're negotiating and there are stops and starts.  But that bill seems to be really moving forward.

And I begin to wonder.  Say they pass or at least get a deal on the bipartisan bill.  Do a bunch of moderate senators on the Democratic side say, I got what I need, I really don't need this other bill?

And so I wonder if the bill I thought was more secure is actually more in trouble, which would be the partisan reconciliation.

Judy Woodruff:  You mean in trouble among Democrats?

David Brooks:  Among Democrats.

Judy Woodruff:  Among Democrats.

How are you reading this, Jonathan?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, you mentioned smoke signals.  To me, that says that something might be on fire.

And so, just before we came out here, a story hit about how there's another wrinkle.  Last week, it was Republicans were against the pay-for by the IRS enforcement.  You had the interview yesterday with Senator Capito.

Judy Woodruff:  Right.

Jonathan Capehart:  And you asked her a question about that.

Then, earlier this week, it was — I guess, even this morning, battle over transit funding, the proportion of transit funding.  Then, just before we came on, there's a story about there's consternation with — among Democrats because Republicans are pulling out something related to the prevailing wage.

It seems like this bipartisan bill that you have so much hope for, there's still so many moving pieces and so many embers that are burning that I don't know if the bipartisan bill is really going to — is going to make it.  We will see on Monday.  So they say.

Judy Woodruff:  Yes, we will learn more earlier — early next week, we think.

Vaccine politics.

David, we are now seeing more Republicans, a few more Republicans come out and say openly, hey, people, please get vaccinated, Steve Scalise, who's the number two Republican in the House of Representatives, a number of Republican governors, including Kay Ivey of Alabama.

And I'm reading what she said in part this week:  "It's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks.  The unvaccinated let us down."

I mean, that's not all Republicans, but it's — how significant is it?

David Brooks:  I loved what she said.  I think that is true.

If we face a shutdown again, herd economy, poor people laid off, that's not the disease.  That's human error.  And that's us.

And so getting more aggressive, the way she is, and the way some others strikes me as absolutely right.  Will it be effective?  I'm not so sure.  I think, once Donald Trump and other Republicans made it a manhood issue, or a freedom issue, or whatever kind of issue they made it, it's hard to walk back that culture war signal.

And it comes at a time when the party has trouble talking about collective good and the common good, and how we're all in this together.  We're certainly all in the air we breathe together.

And so I'm not — I think that has been dug deep into American history, but especially the Republican Party right now.  And I'm not sure Mitch McConnell saying a few things is going to reverse that trend.

Judy Woodruff:  How do you — how much difference do you think this could make?

Jonathan Capehart:  This being more…

Judy Woodruff:  A few more Republicans in the media, as well as conservatives in…

Jonathan Capehart:  I have to — David just spoke for me in what he said.

I think, if we had had a President of the United States who took this seriously when this first came on the scene, if we had a Republican Party that took this seriously enough to warn everyone, their constituents saying, wash your hands, then put on a mask, then go get the vaccine, we wouldn't be where we are right now.

And I agree with David.  I think that this has become such a cultural point that, even if Donald Trump were to come out tomorrow and say, you know what, not only did I get COVID, I survived it, and I also took the vaccine, and you should too, so you can vote for me again in 2024, he could say all of that, and, to David's point, I think the point has been driven so far deep, that he won't convince anyone, no one to get the vaccine who doesn't want to get it right now.

Judy Woodruff:  How do you — David, I mean, what kind of a divide is this among Republicans?

I mean, is it based on science?  Is it — how do you read what's going on here?

David Brooks:  Yes.

The people I know personally who are not getting the vaccine, for them, it was like, they rushed this thing.  Who knows what's going to happen to all these people who get the shots in 10 years or 20 years?  So, why should I take the risk?

And that's not completely crazy, but it's not — it's based on some sense of general distrust for the establishment, including the medical establishment.  And that establishment — that distrust is the core of this thing.

If we lived in high society, where we all felt the institutions of our society could be trusted, we'd all get the shots.  But the pervasive distrust, which really started in the '60s and 70s with Vietnam and Watergate, and has been ramping up pretty steadily over the last five decades, that's the core villain here.

And how do you get people to trust each other and societies like this, the fundamental problem in America right now?  And it's a very big one.

Judy Woodruff:  And there's still a stubborn — or a core out there, Jonathan, of people who are saying, I'm not going to take this.

There was a new survey out this afternoon, I think, from the Associated Press, people saying, I am not going to get it, no matter what.

Jonathan Capehart:  Which is — it breaks my heart, because you read stories of the — I think it was a doctor in Alabama who wrote about — talked about how, before she intubate someone, they plead with her, can I have the vaccine, and she's, I'm sorry, it's too late, and then going to the family members and saying, honor your loved one, get the vaccine.

And they tell her, I thought it was all politics.  I thought it was a hoax.

That just broke my heart, because that says, to David's point, trust in anything and anyone that isn't themselves, it's completely broken down, completely.

Judy Woodruff:  And, I mean, I remember seeing an interview this week with a man in the — in his hospital bed after serious COVID saying, even if he had it all to do over again, he wouldn't get vaccinated, that he so distrusts — it's just what you said.

David Brooks:  Religion is a powerful thing.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  And I would just say, we have got to make it so to get into any fun thing to do in America, you have to show your card.

And that, to me, I think is the only way to do it.

Judy Woodruff:  David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart, both of you, stay safe.  The Delta variant is out there.

Jonathan Capehart:  You too, Judy.

(LAUGHTER)

Jonathan Capehart:  Thanks, Judy.

Judy Woodruff:  Thank you.

2020 OLYMPICS - Week 7/19 Roundup

For me it is confusing to have the '2020' Olympics in 2021, it's the delay of course.

"The American athletes to watch during the Tokyo Olympics" PBS NewsHour 7/19/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  The opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games are just four days away.  But the specter of COVID hangs over the games as more than 50 people involved, including athletes, contractors and staff, test positive.  Olympics officials say they still hope to put on compelling games despite it all.  With that in mind, Judy Woodruff previews some of the Americans to watch with Christine Brennan of USA Today.

Christine Brennan, USA Today:  Well, we really — the dream team is women's basketball.  And going back, the U.S. women's Olympic basketball team has not lost, Judy, since 1992, Barcelona 1992.

 

 

"Quiet Olympics opening ceremony sees loud public protest over virus concerns" PBS NewsHour 7/23/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Usually a star-studded show, the Tokyo Olympics opened with a quieter ceremony.  National teams paraded to a nearly empty stadium.  It was noisier outside, as protests against holding the games in the middle of a pandemic continued.  Only 23% of Japan's population is fully vaccinated.  William Brangham speaks to Associated Press reporter Philip Crowther about the situation on the ground in Tokyo.

 

 

"Delayed by a year, Tokyo Olympics kick-off amid COVID-19 fears, protests" PBS NewsHour 7/24/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  A year after they were postponed due to the COVID-19 outbreak, the Olympics kicked off in Tokyo, Japan-- but not without controversies.  The opening ceremony was held without spectators and most competitions are being held without an in-person audience.  Meanwhile, as COVID-19 cases rise, public outcry against the Games has grown.  New York Times Tokyo Bureau Chief Motoko Rich joins.

OPINION - Brooks and Capehart 6/11/2021

"Brooks and Capehart on Biden at the G-7 summit, the Justice Department under Trump" PBS NewsHour 6/11/2021

SUMMARY:  New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including President Biden at the G-7 summit, the Justice Department under the Trump administration, and how redistricting will impact the nation's political makeup.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  And to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.  That is New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington Post.

And they are in person here with me.

David Brooks, New York Times:  We're here.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  I can touch you.  Actually, you're in the studio.  This is exciting.  I have got to figure out how I'm going to get through this conversation.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  It's so weird to be doing it while wearing shoes.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  Unusual.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  Exactly, instead of our house slippers.

So much to talk about.

And, Jonathan, let's just quickly pick up with where Dan Bush left off.

Texas, really important decision for them to make about these new districts.  They have got to figure out how to draw those lines.  What is at stake?  With the Congress so evenly divided, what's at stake here?

Jonathan Capehart, Washington Post:  What's at stake is the majority for the Congress, whether the — excuse me — whether the Democrats will maintain their very slim majority or, as a result of redistricting, not just in Texas, but around the country, whether the lines will be drawn in such a way that gives an advantage to Republicans going into the 2022 midterms before a vote has even been cast.

And, you know, with Texas, the influx of people, the population growing, a lot of them in the urban centers that went for Democratic candidates, and yet the way the districts can be drawn, that voting power very well might end up resulting in districts that would be drawn for Republicans to do better in.

Judy Woodruff:  So, what — how can Democrats counter this, David?  How do you see this shaking out, given what's going on in…

David Brooks:  Yes, I think prayer would help.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  You know, I think the Democrats I talk to want to maintain the House.  They don't expect to.

Jonathan Capehart:  Yes.

David Brooks:  As I would — they would — somebody said, it would take a miracle.

Miracles could happen.  And it could happen.  But in midterm elections, when one party controls both houses of Congress and the White House, then their records in these first midterms tends to be terrible.

And then there's the population shift, which we have been hearing about.  That, by itself, is probably enough to get the Republicans four or five, six, seven seats.  And then there's the redrawing of the lines.  And Republicans just control a lot more state legislatures.

Now, I should say, I'm more focused on population shifts than on gerrymandering, because, while I think these lines, these — the legislatures draw our gross and unwieldy, and it's the politicians selecting the voters, I don't think the effect is that big.

In the middle of the 20th century, you had a big effect where Democrats had a natural advantage, because of the way they drew the lines.  Then, in the early 20th century, the Republicans had a pretty big effect, maybe 20 more seats than you would think from their vote totals.

But, recently, it's been a pretty small effect.  It's been in the single digits.  So — and that's in part because half the states, it's not partisanly drawn.  And so…

Judy Woodruff:  For different reasons.

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, what we have happening here is, it's not just redistricting.  We have what I call a perfect storm brewing.

You have got redistricting, on top of voter laws that have been voted into Georgia, Florida.  Texas, Democrats did a dramatic move to keep their law from going into effect, but a special session will be called, and those laws might well go through.  Iowa.  Arizona.

And so those laws being put in place.  Democrats call them voter suppression laws.  They will keep people, primarily Black and brown people, the young, from getting out to vote.  Not every — not every eligible voter will be able to vote and not — every legally cast vote might not be counted.  And that's what's at danger — in danger as well.

Judy Woodruff:  And all this getting more attention.  Usually, we're waiting for census data, waiting to see what each state does, certainly in the spotlight.

Let's turn, David, to our lead tonight.  And that is President Biden in Europe meeting with the British prime minister, meeting with his counterparts in the so-called G7.

What is — why does this trip matter for him?  What does he need to do?

David Brooks:  Well, he needs to show that America is back.  And he — and back and cooperating with people.  And I have traveled on delegations he's made to Munich to the Security Conference they have there.  And what you see is, he's on first-name basis with everybody, like, with the world leaders, with the doormen in the hotel.  He's been doing it for so long.  And so I think there's a little of that personal diplomacy.

And I think they're proud of the fact they got this vaccine thing done.  I spoke to a White House official today.  And they said the last four weeks have really been a sprint to get this, so we could offer half-a-billion vaccines and get our allies to another…

Judy Woodruff:  Huge number.

David Brooks:  ....  another half-a-billion.

And that will all be done by the middle of the next year.  And so they are surprised they could get to this.  They thought we would not be in a state where we had so many vaccines, we would have enough to buy and then share with the world.  And I think they want to show that we're in the generosity business again, and that America can be a generous nation in the world, a little Marshall Plan.

And I think they'd love to get to a spot where it's not a nation-by-nation fight against COVID.  It's a little more of an interdependent global fight against COVID.  And so they're pleased with that.

They are under no illusions that American-European relations are going to go back to the way they used to be in the Cold War.  That's not going to happen.  But they're very pleased, and I think legitimately so.

Judy Woodruff:  How do you see the way — what is at stake for Biden and his agenda here and globally?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, I think, to your point, the President knows all of these people.  He was a senator for 36 years, Vice President for eight years.

Yes, he is on a first-name basis.  His mantra is, America is back.  But there's a piece in, I think it was The Times of London asking the question, OK, but do the words match the deeds?

And I do think that there's some skepticism in Europe about whether the President's focus on China, whether that's taking attention away from them, whether the President, President Biden, is continuing former President Trump's policies vis-a-vis China.  Think of tariffs.

Judy Woodruff:  Yes.

Jonathan Capehart:  And then other things that Vice President Biden is doing that former President Trump talked about, withdrawing from Afghanistan.

So I think what we're seeing, yes, it's not going to go back to the way it was.  And I do think that the world now is, like, they're happy the United States is back in the fold, but I think they have figured out over the last four years, we can't really depend on the United States, especially when it comes to — President Biden's mantra is also democracy.  We have to show that democracy works.

But those world leaders are watching what we're doing here, the last conversation we had about voting rights.  How can you have a democracy if voting rights are at risk?

Judy Woodruff:  So, it's — David, it's the pandemic that has shifted the landscape, of course, but it's also the Trump — the four years of Donald Trump.

David Brooks:  Yes, PTSD, they have got, whatever, post-traumatic Trump is.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  They wonder if this four years is an interregnum, and that Trump will be back.  They wonder if a Trump-like figure will be back.

And so they — there's some sense America's fundamentally less stable.  And then we are more America first.  I mean, Biden is not as America first as Trump was, but you look at our purchasing decisions as a government, it's America first.  And we're just living in a world where multilateral cooperation is less emphasized, frankly, from a lot of countries all at once.

And that has just been a trend of the last 25 years, as nationalism has become a stronger force in the world and across the West and in Asia.  And, somehow, there's just been a deterioration in our willingness to cooperate on a whole range of fronts.

Judy Woodruff:  Harder, in other words.

Jonathan, I hear you saying this is harder than one might have expected coming out of Trump and — President Trump and assuming everything's going to be easier for President Biden globally.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right, harder.

But I think, from President Biden's perspective, for someone who knows all of these people, I think he's counting on and banking on the fact that those relationships will help smooth over some of the harder things that they have to deal with.

And you know what?  If I were President Biden, I would think that my chances, my odds were good, not great, but good.

David Brooks:  We have been on a lot of calls with Biden administration officials, and they're weirdly normal.  It's like democracy is in crisis, the world's falling apart.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  But they're like as if it's like 1955.  It's like, no, no, no, everything — we will cooperate, we will compromise, we will have these civil discussions.

And I don't know if they're just putting that face on that we live in a normal world anymore, but they're very normal.

Jonathan Capehart:  I think they would probably say — yes, they are very normal.

But I what I take from that is, you know what?  These are people who are competent.  They have been in these jobs before.  They know what the pitfalls are.  And they also know that everything is on fire, but at least they know the terrain.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, speaking of everything being on fire, David, in the last few days, we have learned that the Trump administration was trying in a number of ways that we find now surprising to seize data from not just journalists — and that's been in the news — but Democratic members of Congress, going after their cell phone records, the data, and their family members, even children.

We have now got an investigation under way.  What does this tell us about what was going on under President Trump?

David Brooks:  Yes, the Trump Justice Department keeps looking worse and worse, even more — worse than it was when it was in office.

When there's a leak of confidential information, there's going to be an investigation.  We understand that.  But they tried an investigation.  They didn't dig up anything on the people they wanted to get, Adam Schiff and people like that.

And so they relaunched another investigation using extremely aggressive means.  And prosecutors or investigators have some discretion over how aggressive they're going to be.  And I would say they got so aggressive, not only so aggressive, that it's super invasive to those of us in the media and people in Congress.

But it just looks like a political witch-hunt.  And Donald Trump is out there in public saying Adam Schiff should be investigated.  And, lo and behold, the people in the Justice Department take political orders.  And that's not what they're supposed to do.  The Justice Department, it's never pure, but it's always supposed to be a step removed from politics, so we have some sense of justice.

Judy Woodruff:  Is this something, Jonathan, that President Trump can be held accountable for, ultimately?  I mean…

Jonathan Capehart:  I mean, that, I don't know.  I mean, I really don't know.  I can't see — as much as everyone — and I shouldn't say everyone — a lot of Democrats and people who had a lot of problems with Donald Trump, they would love to be able to say, oh, this is what's going to take them down, meaning send him to jail, hold him accountable.

I'm not sure.  But, again, I'm not surprised.  It's sort of like you're shocked, but you're not shocked, because we watched this in real time.  The one thing about Donald Trump, he allowed our imaginations to go wild, because, if you let them go wild, you actually kind of know what's happening.

And this story, to my mind, is that situation of, when you're imagining — when reality catches up with your imagination.

Judy Woodruff:  He was publicly going after Adam Schiff.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right.

Judy Woodruff:  He was speaking about him, tweeting about him.  Eric Swalwell.  Well, I mean, these are — but to be using your Justice Department, the Justice Department that belongs to the American people, this way…

Jonathan Capehart:  Look, I would hope, I would hope, if proof is found that he directly ordered the Attorney General to do these things, then, absolutely, he should be held accountable.

But I don't see — I just don't see it happening at this point right now, given what we know.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, one thing's for sure.  We are thrilled that the two of you are here in the studio.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  And I know everybody watching is too.

Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks, thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

David Brooks:  It's good to be with you, Judy.

(CROSSTALK)

Judy Woodruff:  Thank you both.  Really good to see you both.  Thank you.

COVID-19 - Last Week

"An emergency room physician weighs in on CDC’s relaxed masking, distancing guidelines" PBS NewsHour 5/17/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Ever since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention eased mask recommendations substantially for fully vaccinated adults, there's been a wide range of reaction — including some outright confusion, anxiety and criticism — over how this will play out.  William Brangham reports on those concerns and brings some perspective from emergency room physician Dr. Megan Ranney.

 

 

"How the pandemic disrupted the lives of American students" PBS NewsHour 5/17/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  It's been an incredibly difficult school year for millions of educators and students in America.  Some had to put their education on hold and their health at risk.  “Disrupted: How COVID-19 Changed Education” [video link] is a special from Student Reporting Labs — our youth journalism program for teens.  Student reporter Yeonseo Seok from Westview High School in San Diego, California, previews the special.

 

 

"‘Vaccine passports’ may be critical for equity, but polarization could undermine efforts" PBS NewsHour 5/17/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Despite good progress on vaccinations in the U.S., the Biden administration and most officials are weary of requiring "vaccine passports" to prove inoculation.  William Brangham discusses the related concerns with Dr. Georges Benjamin the executive director of the American Public Health Association, and Lawrence Gostin a professor of global health law at Georgetown University Law Center.

 

 

"4 ways the US can help stem COVID deaths globally" PBS NewsHour 5/21/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  While the pandemic's toll is easing in the U.S., COVID-19 still has a deadly grip on many other countries.  The estimated global death toll remains around 13,000 people a day, and the World Health Organization's new estimates are far higher.  William Brangham discusses them with Dr. Monica Gandhi an infectious diseases and global medicine specialist at the University of California, San Francisco.

 

 

"In memory of 5 wonderful people lost to COVID-19 in the US" PBS NewsHour 5/17/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Each week, PBS NewsHour pauses to remember five Americans lost to the COVID-19 pandemic, and shares memories and highlights from their lives.

MEMORIAM - 5 Wonderful People Lost to COVID-19

"Looking back at the lives of 5 wonderful people lost to COVID-19" PBS NewsHour 4/23/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Every Friday, we take a moment to remember five people lost to COVID-19.  Here are their stories.

COVID-19 - What Are My Chances?

"What are my chances of hospitalization even after being fully vaccinated?" PBS NewsHour 4/17/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  The latest on COVID-19 and vaccines: Johnson & Johnson shots continue to be on pause as health officials investigate extremely rare side effects; Moderna and Pfizer vaccination appointments are becoming easier to snag in many states; and what scientists are learning about the vaccine’s efficacy against variants and ‘breakthrough infections.’  ProPublica reporter Caroline Chen joins Hari Sreenivasan to discuss.

OPINION - Brooks and Capehart 4/2/2021

"Brooks and Capehart on Biden’s new infrastructure plan, Georgia’s voting law" PBS NewsHour 4/2/2021

SUMMARY:  New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including President Biden’s infrastructure plan, the pace of COVID-19 vaccinations amid spikes in infections, and Major League Baseball's reaction to Georgia's new voting law.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  With the release of President Biden's infrastructure plan, states reopening, and boycotts brewing, we look to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.

That is New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington Post.

Hello to both of you.  So good do see you, as always, this Friday.

And there is, as always, a lot to talk about.

Jonathan, I want to start with you on the President's big infrastructure plan, over $2 trillion.  What do you make of it?  Does it meet the need or does it overshoot?

Jonathan Capehart, The Washington Post:  Well, if you listen to progressives, Judy, it doesn't meet the need.  It doesn't go far enough.  If you listen to Republicans, it spends way too much.

I think the way you described the plan is perfect, actually, because you described it as an infrastructure plan.  But the actual name of this package is the American Jobs Act.  And that, I think, when you think of what the President proposed in terms of jobs, it all fits together.  It all makes sense.

One of the knocks against the President's plan is that, well, only a certain amount of it is spent on infrastructure.  Most people, when they think of infrastructure, they think of roads, bridges, seaports, airports, those types of things.

But what you see in the American Jobs Act is a broader definition of what infrastructure is.  Yes, it's roads and bridges, but it is also wind turbines and solar, green energy things, wiring the country with broadband, having broadband be for 2021 what the interstate system was in the mid-'50s, connecting the country, but connecting the country electronically, and also the electric power grid.

So, I think the President's going for a big, bold plan.  The key question is, can that big, bold plan actually become law?

Judy Woodruff:  And, David, Jonathan makes a points.  There is more in here than what's traditionally been thought of as infrastructure, hundreds of billions for caregiving for seniors and others.  What do you make of this?

David Brooks, New York Times:  No, I do worry about the debt.  We're spending almost $10 trillion, if all the Biden things pass.

That's a lot.  It's just a historical fact that rising debt contributed to the decline of the Roman Empire, the decline of the Spanish, imperial Spain, France in the 18th century, China in the 19th century.  History is replete with nations who hurt themselves by going into too much debt.

Nonetheless, I think, in these circumstances, the Biden plan is worth it.  And I say that for a couple of reasons.  One, we have simply underinvested in infrastructure and basic research and all such things for decades.  And that's just a fact.

Second, if you ask me to tell the economic story of America over the last 50 years, I would say that we have built a gigantic funnel that has funneled money and resources and wealth to highly educated people in large metro areas.

This plan funnels money to all the people who are not in those categories.  And so I think it rebalances our society in an important way.

And, finally, Jonathan and I were on a call with Anita Dunn, the President's adviser earlier in the week.  And she made the point that listen, we're — we have got to show democracy works.  There's a Chinese system out there that a lot of people think that's what works.  And we're just in this contest to show that democracy can get big things done.

So, given the circumstances, I overcome my incredibly high aversion to all this debt.

Judy Woodruff:  So Jonathan, does this look like it has a chance of getting — becoming law?

(LAUGHTER)

Jonathan Capehart:  Judy, right now, no.

And I say no because the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, has already said that he's not going to support it.  I have not heard one Republican in the Senate step forward and say that he or she will support it.

That means the President is going to have to depend on a couple things, one, maintaining all 50 Democrats to vote for this plan.  But the other thing is that, in order for all 50 Democrats to have any say over this, the Senate parliamentarian has to rule whether the American Jobs Act, like the Recovery Act, can go through reconciliation, which is just a simple majority vote.

So, there are a lot of hurdles here.  And that's why I say, right now, the American Jobs Act is big and bold.  And, as necessary as it is, as it stands right now, I don't see how it becomes law.

Judy Woodruff:  David, your forecast?

David Brooks:  A tad more optimistic.

I hear a lot of moderates who are supporting it, moderate Democrats who are saying positive things about it.  So that's a good sign.

I think one of the challenges is going to be, this is just going to take a long time.  Nancy Pelosi said she hoped to get it out of the House by July 4, which is an ambitious timetable.  Then it goes to the Senate.  So we're looking at a six-month process.

And suppose we're generating 900,000 jobs a month, as we just did, over all that time.  A lot of people are going to say, why are we spending all this money?  The economy's really roaring.

And so that could drain away support.

Judy Woodruff:  All right, two other things I want to ask you both about.  We will try the squeeze them in.

First to you, Jonathan, on where we are with COVID.  We see more people are getting vaccinated, good signs.  What, over 100 million Americans now have been vaccinated.  But we are also seeing rise in the number of cases.  We're hearing talk about vaccine passports, requiring people to show a passport that they have been vaccinated before they can travel or go into a place of work, potentially.

And you also see states where the governors are opening up before Washington says they're ready for that.  Where do you see all this headed?

Jonathan Capehart:  I feel like Groundhog Day, because I believe I said this a few weeks ago.

We are so close.  We're always so close to getting to the other side of this pandemic, in terms of cases going down, hospitalizations, deaths, businesses being able to reopen.  And then states end up doing something to kind of mess it all up.

And for states to undue their mask mandates, open things wide open again, as cases are going up, as variants are running rampant across the land, when you have the CDC director going off-script and saying that she's extremely worried about what's going to happen, I don't think we're out of the woods yet.

And I think people are being a little too optimistic about how much they can do because of the vaccines.  I, like anyone, would like to get the vaccine and get back to normal.  But I would love for things to get back to normal when every — when the country can actually do it in a uniform way.

And I'm not seeing right now how we're going to be able to do that, in — by the time of the President's goal of July 4.

Judy Woodruff:  David?

David Brooks:  Yes, I think we need to make life a lot better for people who have had the vaccine.

I think we need vaccine passports, so they can go to gyms and restaurants.  And I say that as one who is too young to have the vaccine, which — the last time I have been too young for anything.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  It's…

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  But we have got to induce the people who are vaccine-hesitant to say, wow, it's really great on the other side of the vaccine.

And one way to do that is to have these vaccine passports, so people can go and enjoy life.  The research has now, it's, as far as I understand it, become very clear.  You do not get the disease — at least your chances are fantastic — and you do not spread the disease.

So, if that's the case, then I say to all of you with the shots, party on.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  David, Jonathan and I think of you as always young, so it's all good.  It's all good.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  Just quickly, finally, we have talked about Georgia's voting law and the pushback against it, but now we have big corporations like Delta, Coca-Cola saying they don't like it.

And, today, Major League Baseball, Jonathan, announced they are pulling their All-Star Game out of Atlanta.  It was going to take place this summer.  They're going to find another home for it.

Is this kind of pressure likely to make a difference in Georgia and other states where they're looking at tightening voting?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, in terms of the law, the Georgia law is the law.  And it is highly unlikely that Governor Kemp is going to go back or the legislature is going to go back and say, we will do — we will have a do-over.

But I do think it's very important for corporate America to take stands on issues that are of importance, not only to their customers, but to their employees.  And so, for Delta and Coca-Cola and Major League Baseball to take the stands that they have taken, I think, is very important.

I think what is also important was the letter from the 72 Black business executives, from Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier, American Express and Merck respectively, the president of the Ford Foundation, Darren Walker, Ursula Burns a former CEO of Xerox, putting pen to paper and saying, what's happening in Georgia is an attack on democracy.

And where are the business leaders, all business leaders in raising their voices about this?

And I think what's happening in Georgia should be a template for all the other states where what's happened in Georgia is happening in those states right now.

Judy Woodruff:  What effect, David, do you see this kind of corporate involvement having?

David Brooks:  Yes, I spoke very negatively, critically of the law last week, and I'm still very much against it.

I worry about this.  I worry about — we have seen one institution after another in American society get politicized, the church, the press.  I worry about corporations suddenly taking political sides.  I worry about boards of directors and CEOs who've got a lot of economic power wielding it in ways that's political.

And so I'm just nervous to see yet another institution gets super political.  They just don't do it well.  Delta, Coke, Major League Baseball, they all work in China, a country now committing genocide.  What standards do we hold people to?  So, I'm just a little nervous about people with a lot of power wielding it in this way.

I just — I'm more comfortable that we settle our differences, even if we hate the results, through politics and through persuasion and through votes and for activism and trying to get people to come out to the polls.  I'm just more comfortable with that as a means of social change.

Judy Woodruff:  A serious note to end on.

David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart, thank you both.  And have a good weekend.

Jonathan Capehart:  Thanks, Judy.

David Brooks:  You too.

OPINION - Brooks and Capehart 3/12/2021

"Brooks and Capehart on the historic COVID relief law and a year of life in the pandemic" PBS NewsHour 3/12/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including President Biden's primetime address to the nation, the historic $1.9 trillion COVID relief law, Gov. Andrew Cuomo's future, and living the last year amid the pandemic.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  So much going on in the world of politics.

We now turn to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.  That's New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington Post.

Hello to both of you on this Friday night.  There is a lot to talk about.

But let's begin, David, with President Biden's first prime-time address from the White House last night talking about COVID.  What did you make of the message, what he had to say, the tone he set?

David Brooks, New York Times:  Yes.  He said: I need you.

Haven't heard that from a White House from — for a few years.  There was a ton of empathy, an awareness of the grim toll, the 527,000 people who have died of this

But I liked the way he spun it positively.  I think we're — at this moment, the government has had a fault of being able too negative.  They don't want people to let up.  So they're still imposing warnings:  Don't do this.  Don't do this.

But I think people want something look forward to.  And we can hang through this if we're given some hope that really good times are ahead.  And so that July 4, you can picnic with your family thing, I think we need to do a little more of that to give people a sense of lift, because this is a weirdly hard moment in the pandemic.  We are exhausted at doing the same thing every day for a year.

Judy Woodruff:  Jonathan, how did you — how did you read what — hear what President Biden said?

Jonathan Capehart, Washington Post:  The thing that jumped out at me, the same as David, actually, when the President leaned forward into the camera and said:  I need you.

The other thing that was very prominent in that speech for me, aside from the words, was the fact that, yes, we have an empathetic President, one who overflows with it.  And after four years of a President who didn't have any empathy, four years of a President who made every utterance, speech, campaign rally, briefing in the White House Press Briefing Room about himself, to have a President stand before the nation and say we, instead of I, to give that — say that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, was something that I noticed on my Twitter feed when I sent out a message saying, thank God we have a President who was overflowing with empathy.

The number of responses from people who were saying that they were crying in that moment, listening to this President, who's not only giving them hope, but really giving words to the pain and frustration that millions of Americans have felt for the last year.

Judy Woodruff:  When you look at the substance of what is in this legislation, this massive piece of legislation, David, the Republicans are saying it's the worst thing they have ever seen, Mitch McConnell saying terrible — the worst law he has ever seen pass the Congress, while Democrats are saying this is going to make a huge difference in the lives of Americans.

Who's going to turn out to be right?

David Brooks:  I don't know.  You take a bet.

The Republicans are right about one thing.  When you throw nearly $2 trillion onto a hot economy of borrowed money, you certainly run the risk of inflation.  And that's very hard to defeat, where you really have to shut down the economy, the way we did in 1981-'82, to solve that problem.

You certainly run the risk of having a big debt problem.  And so I completely understand the concerns.

I think I would bet the way Biden bet it on this case, because, for the last 20 years, it's become increasingly clear the economy is not working for people the way it used to.  It's not working for young adults.  It's not working for people in — throughout the country.

And one way to fix that is to create a white hot labor market by pumping money in the economy.  Another way to fix it is with a child tax credit to make parenting affordable.  Another way is with insurance — health insurance expandencies (sic).

So, when I look at this bill, I look at it as a big, epochal shift.  The policy is finally catching up with the specific problems we have right now.  It's an equivalent transformation, to me, of when Ronald Reagan came into office, and, in 1981, addressed the stagflation of the 1970s.

Now we have different policies, different gigantic policies, but at least, it seems to me, in response to a real problem of the moment.

Judy Woodruff:  And, Jonathan, do you see any risk or risk of any size, magnitude, in what the Democrats are doing, party-line vote?  No Republicans voted for it.

Jonathan Capehart:  No Republicans voted for the bill, Judy.

But when you look at the public opinion polling about the American Rescue Plan, 60 percent of Republicans favored it.  And so I think what we're going to see going forward is a growing disconnect, a growing chasm between Republicans who are elected to come here to Washington to legislate and the people who sent them here.

And I'm not sure how the Republican Party is going to deal with that, because all we have seen from Republicans on the hill is Dr. Seuss and everything that they are against.  I defy anyone to tell me what Republicans are actually for, with the exception of Senator Mitt Romney, Senator Tom Cotton on minimum wage and the child tax credit.

But that's just two Republicans.  More needs to come out of the Republican Party for them to be a credible policy challenger to Democrats.

Judy Woodruff:  And, David, if the two parties weren't going to come together on this, do you — what do you think the prospects are for anything coming down the pike anytime soon?

David Brooks:  I think — I think there is some prospect.

The Democrats really want to go big on this, and they got everything they want.  I think they got more than most progressives thought they were going to get.  They did a neat trick of pleasing the progressives without scaring away the moderates.  That was not automatic.  And so they wanted to open big, and they have opened huge.

But then there's the possibility of infrastructure.  This is the perennial thing about which there should be bipartisan agreement.  Everyone mouths that we agree on this, more or less.  Minimum wage, there should be a way to get a deal on the minimum wage.  Some Republicans have come up to $11.

So, it's possible.  The question to me is, Democrats, do they really want to?  They hold the power here.  Do they really want to?  Or do they regard the current Republican Party as so legitimate, it's not worth compromising?  And I think that sentiment is really the guiding force within the Democratic Party right now.

Judy Woodruff:  Jonathan, what do you think the chances are they work together on something?

Jonathan Capehart:  They will work together on something.  Maybe it's infrastructure, but I'm keeping my eye, Judy, on what they can do that doesn't involve reconciliation.

They might be able to do it one more time with some aspects of an immigrant — I'm sorry — not immigration — infrastructure package.  But I do think what we're going to see on a bunch of other priorities, immigration, voting reform, other things, where the bills are going to come to the floor in the Senate, and there won't be 60 votes to end the filibuster, but there will be more than 50 votes that will send a signal to the American people that this could pass were it not for the filibuster.

And I think that will — that will engender grassroots pressure on Democrats to do away with it, but also put pressure on the Republicans to explain to the American people, wait, if a majority of you are for this, why can't it pass?

Judy Woodruff:  Different subject, Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York.

David, there are now seven women who've come forward accusing him of sexual misconduct.  And now we have both New York state U.S. senators, Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand, calling on him, and most of the congressional delegation, Democrats, calling on him to step down.

Can he survive this?

David Brooks:  I don't possibly say how he can.

The only — this is reminiscent of when Barry Goldwater and a group of Republicans went to the White House and told Richard Nixon he had to leave.  This is really the — all relevant Democrats, with the exception of the White House, telling him he has to leave.

We are — there are now a lot of women who have who have made these accusations.  My newspaper had a story today interviewing dozens of people in the — women in the administration who described a toxic atmosphere, some of them.  Not all of them did.  Some of them described a toxic atmosphere, where they were more or less compelled to wear high heels and dress in a certain way.

It's clearly not acceptable in a 21st century workplace.  And so I just don't see how he can last in office.

Judy Woodruff:  And, Jonathan, we — as we reported earlier, Governor Cuomo today said these people calling for him to step down are part of cancel culture, that they don't know the facts.

Jonathan Capehart:  Yes, I mean, he will say whatever he needs to say to defend himself.

But when you have both sitting United States senators, more than half the legislative — legislators in Albany calling for your resignation, that is sending a signal.

The one person I am watching, Judy, is Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, who is a rising star within the Democratic Party.  Congressman Hakeem Jeffries was a House impeachment manager, very, very close to Governor Cuomo.  If he loses Hakeem Jeffries, then you know he's gone.

Judy Woodruff:  We will watch that.

And in the little bit of time we have left, this is the week — for both of you — we have spent a year now in this pandemic.  It started in March, March the 10th, March the 11th of 2020.  Our lives have been turned upside down.

David, I want to ask each one of you what it's meant.  I mean, how have you — do you think you have changed?  What's different for you after this?

David Brooks:  Well, historians will note that the Asian countries succeeded and the Western countries failed.  And if this is an Asian century, then they will note this as a turning point.

The second thing, we have just lost faith in each other a lot.  I think we're a less united country.  We could be united about this.  And then, personally, 530,000 families have lost a family member.  The rest of us have endured stress and anxiety.  The number of people I know who are on anxiety pills now is very high, contemplating suicide, depression, stress.

Personally, I can't tell you how much I have forgotten.  I spend much of my day a wandering around wondering where I left this thing.  And stress and boredom and loneliness affects the mind.  And I feel my mind has been drained out of this.

I'm ready to get out there and sit in a studio with you and Mark — and — and Jonathan.

(LAUGHTER)

Jonathan Capehart:  That's a great — that's a great slip.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  And we're ready to get back in the studio, when it's safe to do that, for sure.

Jonathan, what about you?  What — how do you feel things have changed?  What's different now?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, I agree with David on everything that he said in terms of the nation and the world and the impact that it's had on all of us.

It didn't help that we had a very stressful presidential administration and election that added to that anxiety.  I think, for me personally, what's been interesting is, I'm an introvert at heart.  I love being at home.  Staying home was not a hardship for me.

(CROSSTALK)

Judy Woodruff:  We don't believe that, but go ahead.

(LAUGHTER)

Jonathan Capehart:  But it's true.

But here's the thing.  I'm sort of — I feel like I'm in between generations, old enough to be from that generation that you wake up, you go into the office Monday through Friday, you must go into the office to do work.

But I'm also young enough to now, as a result of the pandemic, understand, you know what, actually, you can work from home, it's OK, you're not cheating in any way.  So, that's one sort of glimmer of hope that I have taken from the pandemic.

But I do think that what it has done to us as a people, as Americans, as a country, pitting us against each other over whether you're wearing a mask or not, governors, whether they're Republican or Democrat, deciding whether they're going to open up their states, public health being politicized, that's the thing that's most distressing to me.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, we each have stories to tell about this year.  And it's amidst so much suffering that we have seen.

But we thank both of you.  And we hope you have a good weekend, both of you, Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks.

Jonathan Capehart:  Thanks, Judy.  Same to you.

David Brooks:  Thank you, Judy.