OPINION - Capehart and Abernathy 11/5/2021

"Capehart and Abernathy on Virginia elections, Build Back Better plan, Colin Powell" PBS NewsHour 11/5/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Washington Post columnists Jonathan Capehart and Gary Abernathy join Judy Woodruff to discuss Tuesday’s surprising election results, the fate of the infrastructure and Build Back Better bill, and reflect on the life and legacy of Colin Powell.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  Democrats and Republicans across the country are examining Tuesday night's surprising election results, with an eye toward crafting their strategies for next year's crucial midterm election races.

Meanwhile, dignitaries in Washington today gathered to remember the life and legacy of former Secretary of State Colin Powell.

Here to add perspective on all this and more are Capehart and Abernathy.  That's Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington Post, and Gary Abernathy, an Ohio-based writer and contributing columnist for The Washington Post.  David Brooks is away.

It's very good to see both of you.

And, Gary, you're here from Ohio, and we're glad to see you.

Gary Abernathy, Washington Post:  Thank you for having me.

Judy Woodruff:  So, what a week, as the three of us were just saying.

Jonathan Capehart, you have now had three whole days to think about what happened, what the voters said on Tuesday, and what do you think it was?

Jonathan Capehart, Washington Post:  So, I split it between Virginia and New Jersey.

With Virginia, governor-elect Glenn Youngkin showed that it's possible to embrace Trump voters with — but, at the same time, keep Donald Trump out of your — physically out of your state.  He showed, as I mentioned last week, the role of playing on racial fear to drive people out to the polls, particularly when it comes to so-called Critical Race Theory.

In New Jersey, the near political death experience of Governor Phil Murphy, Democrat, to my mind shows the larger, bigger national — the problem that the national Democratic Party has.  Governor Murphy is popular in New Jersey.  He was running on the President's agenda, basically, and the fact that he squeaked it out says that folks in New Jersey are tired, seemingly, of the dysfunction of Democrats arguing with each other over bills, not being able to show they can get anything done.

Judy Woodruff:  We saw more of that today.

Jonathan Capehart:  Yes, and still going on today.

Judy Woodruff:  Right.

Jonathan Capehart:  And so the party has to figure out how to reach those voters that Glenn Youngkin reached, be able to talk to them, but also show the country that they're competent, that they are worthy of being entrusted with governing.

Judy Woodruff:  Gary Abernathy, what messages do you think the voters were delivering?

Gary Abernathy:  Well, a lot of Democrats are saying that the message was:  We need to do more.  We haven't done this.  We were punished for not passing these bills we promised we were going to pass.

I think it's the opposite.  I think voters were saying:  We don't like what you're doing.

Now, there are two different things here, and the Democrats try to tie them together, the infrastructure bill and the Build Back Better bill, two different things.  The infrastructure bill has tremendous bipartisan support.  They should pass that.  They should pass that tonight and show they're doing something, not just politically, but the country needs this infrastructure bill.

But people thought — we have to remember, the 2020 election was a referendum on Donald Trump.  It was not about issues.  It was not about what Biden was promising to do.  It was, we either want Trump, more of him, or we're going to kick him out.  They voted to kick him out.  The majority did.

But they thought they were getting a safe alternative with Joe Biden.  And he turned out to be a guy who's been much more aggressively liberal with the Bernie Sanders wing than people were voting for.

One key thing from the exit polls on — the Edison exit polls that I think The Washington Post used and other networks…

Judy Woodruff:  Right.

Gary Abernathy:  … said that Trump is still unpopular in Virginia.  Seven out of 10 voters thought that Youngkin's policies and ideas were much like Trump's.  Didn't hurt him a bit.  He won.

People are OK with Trump's policies.  They just didn't like Trump.

Judy Woodruff:  But what about what the Democrats are offering?

I hear you, the two of you, saying different things about whether Americans want what the Democrats are debating and still haven't been able to pass yet, Jonathan.

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, I think that's the problem.  They still haven't been able to pass it.

If you tease out every little thing out of both the infrastructure bill, which we know has bipartisan support, but even what's in the Build Back Better Act, last I checked — there are so many things in it — but if you tease out the individual pieces, they have popular support.

It's just that, if you're going to go for it, and you have got the House and you have got the Senate and you have the White House, to the larger American public who doesn't follow the stuff the way we do, they sit back and think, why can't you get anything done if you have all three of these branches?

And that is why this is such a problem for Democrats and the President.

Judy Woodruff:  What I hear you saying, Gary, is, even if they pass this other piece of legislation, that may not help the Democrats.

Gary Abernathy:  I think it hurts them.

I think that it's — again, I'm going to say — and Jonathan and I are disagreeing on this, but the message Tuesday was:  We don't like the direction you're going.

The Democrats, really, if they stopped to evaluate what happened Tuesday, they would be better off sitting and letting Joe Manchin lead the discussion, while Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez kind of sit to the side a little bit and listen, because I think Manchin, to his credit, kind of has a pulse on where America is at now.

And, no, the Democrat Party doesn't have to become the Republican Party, but Joe Manchin is a pretty centrist Democrat who's trying to wave the red flag and ring the warning bells, and no one's listening to him yet.

Jonathan Capehart:  OK.

The Democratic Party, in the Build Back Better plan, for instance, would love for there to be paid family leave.  And I guess conservatives look at paid family leave as paying people to stay home, instead of looking at the domino effect of what it means in order for a family to not risk their job in order to stay home for whatever — for whatever reason, grieving the loss of a parent, a new child coming into the family.

Judy Woodruff:  Right.

Jonathan Capehart:  There are economic benefits that the American people want, the Earned Income Tax Credit for children, any number of things.

It's not — I don't think it's that the American people don't want these things and that these aren't a grab bag of things to just give away.  They have a benefit for the long-term health and security, economic well-being of this country.

Gary Abernathy:  I think Americans do want a lot of those things, and they do poll as popular item by item.

But Americans love ice cream.  If you did a poll, you would find out almost 100 percent of Americans love ice cream.  It doesn't mean they approve of spending trillions of dollars to give everyone free ice cream.  Not everybody can have things that we all agree, gee, that would be nice.

But, at some point in time, there comes a point where we have to say, we don't have any money.  I mean, we're — I don't care if we're talking $6 trillion, $3 trillion, $1 trillion.  It doesn't exist.  So I think the American people know that too.

Yes, we'd like to have all these things, but our great-grandchildren pay for it?

Judy Woodruff:  One other piece of analysis that's been out there, and it came from James Carville, a longtime Democratic strategist on this program Wednesday night, Jonathan, essentially said this woke business has gone too far, the focus on injustice in our society.

Does he have a point or not?

Jonathan Capehart:  He has a point up to a point.

I understand where James Carville is coming from.  I have heard the quote in full and in context, I get where he's coming from.

But what he's done is, he's basically said to the base of the Democratic Party:  Who cares what you think?

He calls it wokeness.  Is it — it's not wokeness to want to be treated fairly by the police.  It's not wokeness to want law enforcement to not view you instantly as a criminal, instantly as a bad guy.  It's not wokeness to demand that our nation's history be taught and reflected accurately.  That's not wokeness.

That's — at a minimum, it's asking for dignity and respect.  And so for someone, a Democratic strategist like James Carville, to say those things basically to the base of the Democratic Party is really unfortunate, because I think we can talk about these issues of injustice and talk about how to move the country forward together.  These don't have to be two separate conversations.

Judy Woodruff:  This is a larger debate that's been out there, Gary.

Gary Abernathy:  And I actually agree with a lot of what Jonathan just said.  I think that we can talk about the role of slavery, the role of racism in this country.  And we should do more of that.  I agree with that.

But there doesn't have to be — I think what happens is with the wokeness, what a lot of us think of as the wokeness, the cancel culture, is that we have to create villains.  We have to demonize.  To lift up one set of people means we have to demonize another set of people.

And that's what turns a lot of people off to having the conversation.

Jonathan Capehart:  No, I mean, I understand where the sentiment comes from about demonizing people.

But — the people I talked to and the people who I'm associated with and related to, we're not about demonizing anybody.  We're about — could you recognize for a hot minute what we go through?  Can you recognize that there was a clip of a Youngkin supporter saying, well, if young people just treat police with respect when they're stopped, everything will be OK?

No, that is not true.  That is not true.  And so for — until someone like her is able to see that perspective, we're always going to have this problem.

Judy Woodruff:  Like that young person.

Gary Abernathy:  Yes.

We tend to — on all things, whether we're talking about Critical Race Theory, which is not a thing being taught in Virginia schools, but it's a thing.  I mean, it's a theory that a lot of people would like to have taught.

Jonathan Capehart:  In — well, it…

Gary Abernathy:  Go ahead.

Jonathan Capehart:  It's taught in law school.

Gary Abernathy:  Yes.  But there have been — I mean, there have been pushes to get it more into curriculums.

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, that's a larger conversation that we don't have time for.

Judy Woodruff:  It's a larger conversation.

Gary Abernathy:  But there are — it's like one extreme and the other — or the other.

We need to talk, to recognize more about what?  As I said, slavery and race and racism have played a role throughout history in the building of this country, and do that honestly.  And white people shouldn't be afraid to say, you know what, we really haven't done that well, and we need to do a better job of that recognize it, but without making us feel like the villains for doing it.

And I think there is a lot of that.  There's a lot of emphasis on white people need to feel a certain amount of guilt over this.  And we need to get past that.

Judy Woodruff:  I want you to make a comment, and then I want to bring up something else.

Jonathan Capehart:  Sure.  Yes.

I'm not — I'm not asking for guilt.  But I do think white people have to get over the — feeling villainized just even when the word race is used in a sentence.  That's all.

Gary Abernathy:  And you may be right.

Judy Woodruff:  It's a conversation we should continue to have next Friday.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  But speaking of all this, someone who I think represents what black Americans have meant to this country was memorialized today.  And that was, of course, Colin Powell.

There was a service for him.  He was remembered as someone who is an example for generations to come, someone who worked across party lines.

In just a few words, Jonathan, what is his legacy?  What should we take away from this man?

Jonathan Capehart:  He was a statesman.  He was a warrior statesman.  He was the best of this country.

He — when he was thinking about running for President in 19 — in the '96 election, you know what?  I was a young editorial writer at The New York Daily News.  I was a big fan of President Clinton.  But the idea that a black man would run for President and had a chance to win left me a little conflicted, because he was a walking role model of who we should be as Americans, but also a walking role model for me, a young black man, seeing a black man like him walking through the corridors of power as if he was just walking in the park.

We need more — we need more people like Colin Powell, regardless of party.

Judy Woodruff:  Admired by so many.  Just 30 seconds.

Gary Abernathy:  Yes, I can't improve on that, but — other than to say, to me, Colin Powell always represented a very classy person, just conducted himself with class.

Even when he was upset about something, even when he was angry about something, even in his criticisms of people, it was done with style and class, which is why I think he was so widely admired across the divide.

Judy Woodruff:  Well, we remember him fondly today.

Gary Abernathy:  Yes.

Judy Woodruff:  Gary Abernathy, Jonathan Capehart, thank you both.

Jonathan Capehart:  Thanks, Judy.

Gary Abernathy:  Thanks, Judy.

OPINION - Brooks and Capehart 7/23/2021

"Brooks and Capehart on Jan. 6 committee, infrastructure, budget, vaccine hesitancy" PBS NewsHour 7/23/2021

SUMMARY:  New York Times columnist David Brooks and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including the Jan.  6 insurrection investigation, the infrastructure and budget negotiations in Congress, and vaccination efforts in America.

Judy Woodruff (NewsHour):  From aspirations around infrastructure to political cracks in the investigation into the insurrection, there is a lot to unpack with the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.

That is New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart, columnist for The Washington Post.

Hello to both of you on this Friday.

Jonathan Capehart, Washington Post:  Thanks, Judy.

Judy Woodruff:  It's always so good to see you.

Let's start with the fireworks this week, David.  House Speaker Nancy Pelosi surprised, I think, a lot of people by saying, no, I'm not going to accept two of the five Republicans appointed to this January 6 select committee.  And then, in turn, you had Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader, saying, well, if you are going to do that, I'm going to pull the whole group.

What did you make of all this?  Does it move the process forward?  What do you think?

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks, New York Times:  No, it's round 947 of stupidity in Congress, I guess.

We had this commission.  The idea is, you each — in normal life, in a normal country, the two parties would get together, leaders would get together, and say, let's put — do this commission, important to understand.  We have a basic kind of person we want on this commission, the kind of people who is trusted by both sides, and then we will put some honorable people, trustworthy people on this commission.  And we will get to the answer.

But, of course, none of that obtains in this situation.  Pelosi and McCarthy never get together.  There are very few people trusted on both sides.  And then McCarthy takes the extraordinary step of appointing Jim Jordan and Jim Banks, two people who are explicitly opposed to the commission, and would clearly undermine it.

He could have picked any one of dozens of other people who would have been quiet and seemed sort of normal.  But this is like throwing it right in your face.  And Pelosi then takes another extraordinary step of not letting the Republicans pick their own people.

And so it's just one escalation of dysfunction after another.  And we're not going to get, at least out of Congress, a bipartisan investigation.

Judy Woodruff:  What did you make, Jonathan, of the arguments that each one of them was making here?  And where does that leave this whole thing?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, I just want to push back on something David just said, that Speaker Pelosi wouldn't let Leader McCarthy pick his own people.

He picked five people, or he picked — he picked Republican members.  Two of them, as you rightly said, were basically stink bombs in the process.  But he was given the opportunity to choose people.  He decided to throw a huge wrench in the process.

I think I have said it on this air.  And I'm going to say it again.  For Nancy Pelosi, for Speaker Pelosi, her faith in the Constitution is only second to her Catholic faith.  She takes her role as a constitutional officer in the United States government extremely seriously.

So, for her, getting to the bottom of why Americans storm the U.S. Capitol to overturn a free and fair election, at the behest of the then sitting President of the United States, is something that is important to her.  It is vital for the history of the country.

And so for Kevin McCarthy to do what he did, and then to blame her, blame her for — she's the reason why the Capitol Police weren't prepared, to me, listening to — listening to House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy had shades of — had flashbacks to Benghazi.

January 6 is the new Benghazi.  Speaker Pelosi is the new Hillary Clinton.  The Capitol — she didn't have the Capitol Police prepared enough is the Hillary Clinton gave a stand-down order.  It is theatrics on the part of Kevin McCarthy.  It is constitutional duty that Speaker Pelosi is trying to engage in.

Judy Woodruff:  David, Kevin McCarthy more to blame here than the speaker?

David Brooks:  I think, on balance, yes, more to blame.

I think Republicans should still get to pick, but, clearly, they would have screwed up the whole works.  Why did Jordan and Banks get picked?

Well, (A) it could have been so Nancy Pelosi would throw them off, and McCarthy could have a fit.  He must have foreseen that.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right.

David Brooks:  She's not going to — and, second [B], it's further regulatory about where the party is, that it's more a [Jim] Jordan party than it is a Cheney party, Liz Cheney.

And so the party is still over there.  And McCarthy is not an ideological person, but he probably knows where the center of his caucus is.

And just this afternoon, I read a piece in The New York Times by Michael Wolff, who's written three books on Donald Trump, just had dinner with him, saying he was certain Trump was going to run for President again.  And if he's going to run for President again, then I guess that's the center of the party, and that's what McCarthy has to genuflect to.

Judy Woodruff:  And, given that, Jonathan, that's — I mean he's — I mean, this is a minority leader of the party who is responding to the — in his view, the titular head of the Republican Party.

Jonathan Capehart:  Right, and also taking his cues where he thinks the base of the party is.

And then there's another golden rule to keep in mind.  I told you the golden rule about Speaker Pelosi.  Here's the golden rule about House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy.  Everything he says, everything he does is geared to one goal, becoming Speaker of the House.

That's why you see him doing what he's doing.

Judy Woodruff:  Infrastructure, our favorite subject.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  I know you're dying to talk about it.

Negotiators are still negotiating, David, but it looks like — the smoke signals look like something's going to happen.  Are you getting the sense that this is going to be a good thing?  What is your — how are you reading all this?

David Brooks:  We should have Thomas the Tank Engine to talk about infrastructure.  It would be more PBS-like.

(LAUGHTER)

Judy Woodruff:  Wait a minute.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  In a good way.

You know, I think what's interesting to me is that there — for those who remember last week's episode, there are two bills.  There's a bipartisan bill that's smaller and infrastructure-y.  And then there's a partisan reconciliation bill that's more progressive.

One would have thought the partisan-only bill would have had smoother sailing, because it's all — just all Democrats.  But, to me, it looks like the bipartisan bill is progressing, progressing, progressing.  And we will know, of course, they're negotiating and there are stops and starts.  But that bill seems to be really moving forward.

And I begin to wonder.  Say they pass or at least get a deal on the bipartisan bill.  Do a bunch of moderate senators on the Democratic side say, I got what I need, I really don't need this other bill?

And so I wonder if the bill I thought was more secure is actually more in trouble, which would be the partisan reconciliation.

Judy Woodruff:  You mean in trouble among Democrats?

David Brooks:  Among Democrats.

Judy Woodruff:  Among Democrats.

How are you reading this, Jonathan?

Jonathan Capehart:  Well, you mentioned smoke signals.  To me, that says that something might be on fire.

And so, just before we came out here, a story hit about how there's another wrinkle.  Last week, it was Republicans were against the pay-for by the IRS enforcement.  You had the interview yesterday with Senator Capito.

Judy Woodruff:  Right.

Jonathan Capehart:  And you asked her a question about that.

Then, earlier this week, it was — I guess, even this morning, battle over transit funding, the proportion of transit funding.  Then, just before we came on, there's a story about there's consternation with — among Democrats because Republicans are pulling out something related to the prevailing wage.

It seems like this bipartisan bill that you have so much hope for, there's still so many moving pieces and so many embers that are burning that I don't know if the bipartisan bill is really going to — is going to make it.  We will see on Monday.  So they say.

Judy Woodruff:  Yes, we will learn more earlier — early next week, we think.

Vaccine politics.

David, we are now seeing more Republicans, a few more Republicans come out and say openly, hey, people, please get vaccinated, Steve Scalise, who's the number two Republican in the House of Representatives, a number of Republican governors, including Kay Ivey of Alabama.

And I'm reading what she said in part this week:  "It's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks.  The unvaccinated let us down."

I mean, that's not all Republicans, but it's — how significant is it?

David Brooks:  I loved what she said.  I think that is true.

If we face a shutdown again, herd economy, poor people laid off, that's not the disease.  That's human error.  And that's us.

And so getting more aggressive, the way she is, and the way some others strikes me as absolutely right.  Will it be effective?  I'm not so sure.  I think, once Donald Trump and other Republicans made it a manhood issue, or a freedom issue, or whatever kind of issue they made it, it's hard to walk back that culture war signal.

And it comes at a time when the party has trouble talking about collective good and the common good, and how we're all in this together.  We're certainly all in the air we breathe together.

And so I'm not — I think that has been dug deep into American history, but especially the Republican Party right now.  And I'm not sure Mitch McConnell saying a few things is going to reverse that trend.

Judy Woodruff:  How do you — how much difference do you think this could make?

Jonathan Capehart:  This being more…

Judy Woodruff:  A few more Republicans in the media, as well as conservatives in…

Jonathan Capehart:  I have to — David just spoke for me in what he said.

I think, if we had had a President of the United States who took this seriously when this first came on the scene, if we had a Republican Party that took this seriously enough to warn everyone, their constituents saying, wash your hands, then put on a mask, then go get the vaccine, we wouldn't be where we are right now.

And I agree with David.  I think that this has become such a cultural point that, even if Donald Trump were to come out tomorrow and say, you know what, not only did I get COVID, I survived it, and I also took the vaccine, and you should too, so you can vote for me again in 2024, he could say all of that, and, to David's point, I think the point has been driven so far deep, that he won't convince anyone, no one to get the vaccine who doesn't want to get it right now.

Judy Woodruff:  How do you — David, I mean, what kind of a divide is this among Republicans?

I mean, is it based on science?  Is it — how do you read what's going on here?

David Brooks:  Yes.

The people I know personally who are not getting the vaccine, for them, it was like, they rushed this thing.  Who knows what's going to happen to all these people who get the shots in 10 years or 20 years?  So, why should I take the risk?

And that's not completely crazy, but it's not — it's based on some sense of general distrust for the establishment, including the medical establishment.  And that establishment — that distrust is the core of this thing.

If we lived in high society, where we all felt the institutions of our society could be trusted, we'd all get the shots.  But the pervasive distrust, which really started in the '60s and 70s with Vietnam and Watergate, and has been ramping up pretty steadily over the last five decades, that's the core villain here.

And how do you get people to trust each other and societies like this, the fundamental problem in America right now?  And it's a very big one.

Judy Woodruff:  And there's still a stubborn — or a core out there, Jonathan, of people who are saying, I'm not going to take this.

There was a new survey out this afternoon, I think, from the Associated Press, people saying, I am not going to get it, no matter what.

Jonathan Capehart:  Which is — it breaks my heart, because you read stories of the — I think it was a doctor in Alabama who wrote about — talked about how, before she intubate someone, they plead with her, can I have the vaccine, and she's, I'm sorry, it's too late, and then going to the family members and saying, honor your loved one, get the vaccine.

And they tell her, I thought it was all politics.  I thought it was a hoax.

That just broke my heart, because that says, to David's point, trust in anything and anyone that isn't themselves, it's completely broken down, completely.

Judy Woodruff:  And, I mean, I remember seeing an interview this week with a man in the — in his hospital bed after serious COVID saying, even if he had it all to do over again, he wouldn't get vaccinated, that he so distrusts — it's just what you said.

David Brooks:  Religion is a powerful thing.

(LAUGHTER)

David Brooks:  And I would just say, we have got to make it so to get into any fun thing to do in America, you have to show your card.

And that, to me, I think is the only way to do it.

Judy Woodruff:  David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart, both of you, stay safe.  The Delta variant is out there.

Jonathan Capehart:  You too, Judy.

(LAUGHTER)

Jonathan Capehart:  Thanks, Judy.

Judy Woodruff:  Thank you.

INFRASTRUCTURE BILL - In Jeopardy Due to GOP Politics

IMHO:  The GOP will try to win the Mid-Term Elections by voting down ANY bill that would make Biden and Democrats look good, even if their action harms the American people.  They are ONLY interested in more power.  Infrastructure spending is worth EVERY penny spent!

"The bipartisan infrastructure deal may be in jeopardy.  Democrats have a ‘Plan B’" PBS NewsHour 7/20/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  This week on Capitol Hill could be make or break for the bipartisan infrastructure framework that President Joe Biden celebrated one month ago.  The fate of the $600 billion investment in roads, bridges, clean water and more is still uncertain, as is the much larger $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill also on the agenda.  Lisa Desjardins joins Judy Woodruff with the latest developments in Congress.

 

 

"Sanders: GOP ‘nervous’ about ‘overdue’ progressive policies in budget, infrastructure bill" PBS NewsHour 7/20/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  Independent Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is the Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee and the person tasked with overseeing the multi-trillion-dollar budget proposal introduced by Democrats last week.  He joins Judy Woodruff to discuss the infrastructure deal, the $3.5 trillion budget proposal, the politics surrounding it, who it aims to benefit most and its path to being passed by Congress.

 

 

"GOP Sen. Capito on funding infrastructure, raising debt ceiling and increasing taxes" PBS NewsHour 7/22/2021

Excerpt

SUMMARY:  A bipartisan group of senators is still negotiating the details of an infrastructure bill after a procedural vote to debate it failed yesterday.  The biggest issue remains how to fund the $1.2 trillion framework, including the $600 billion in new spending.  Judy Woodruff speaks with Republican Sen. Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, who led a separate bipartisan effort on infrastructure in June.