Over this 3-day holiday weekend (which included Friday) I stayed away from the news. I just needed a respite. Upon viewing the online News Hour's Political Wrap of Friday, 5 October 2007. I wish I had at least watched the News Hour.
The following are excerpts from the full transcript, focusing on the Examining interrogation tactics section.
JIM LEHRER: And now to Shields and Brooks, syndicated columnist Mark Shields, New York Times columnist David Brooks.
Mark, what do you make of these interrogation memos?
MARK SHIELDS, Syndicated Columnist: Well, I think, Jim, we're going right back to where we were just two years ago. Two years ago, we had a major showdown. On one side of the battle was the administration, the White House, the attorney general then, Alberto Gonzales, but the president and the vice president, and on the other side were John McCain, John Warner, and Lindsey Graham in the Senate, Colin Powell, John Shalikashvili, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Joe Hoar, former Marine general and chairman of Central Command.
And one side were those who said we're going to do this because it's extraordinary circumstances and we're going to take all these measures, this is unlike any other foe we've ever had. And McCain and Powell and Warner and others just said, no, this is totally not only violative of every American value, but it hurts our soldiers and troops in combat because it exposes them to greater possibility of torture, it gets unreliable information.
And in the final analysis, John McCain made the strongest case, as a member of the Senate, when he said, When I was a prisoner, and we were prisoners, and we were tortured, and many of my comrades died, what sustained us was our belief that we were different, that our system and our values were better.
JIM LEHRER: Is the administration in these memos taking the position, David, speaking of different, that the CIA interrogating suspects is different than the military, which was, of course, what Mark was going through and what this legislation was all about?
DAVID BROOKS: Yeah, there are sort of two issues here. One is, is it a good idea to torture?
JIM LEHRER: Period.
DAVID BROOKS: Right. And then the second is the more legal issue, which these competing memos sort of we're talking about, which were, does the president have the legal authority based on precedent and all that to let the CIA do what it wants to do?
And to me, the political effect of this is a sense of elitism, a sense that people in the administration, some people in the administration, think, "This war on terror is serious. A lot of people don't take it as seriously as we are. They're not as hard and tough as we are. So we're going to put out one thing for the country, but secretly we tough guys are going to have another set of rules."
And so I think the big, damaging thing about this is the difference between what we all thought was the administration interpretation of what could be done and what inside, apparently, this memo suggests they had agreed could be done. And it's the gap between the private and the public that, to me, is the most damaging thing about this.
JIM LEHRER: Is it a little bit extraordinary that they put it all in writing?
DAVID BROOKS: No, I mean, they do go by the rules. And to be fair, one of the things the Times story made clear is that there's a group of lawyers that have been within in the Justice Department, no matter who the attorney general was, and they come from similar backgrounds, elite law schools, Supreme Court clerks, Federalist Society.
And what was fascinating and was well-described in the article was that this community of people who were friends split on this issue. And some of the lawyers decided this is within the president's rights. Some, who have very similar political philosophies said, no, this is an overreach. This is poorly argued.
So it was that split within the communities, and it depended on who happened to be sitting in what chair at what time that determined, seemingly, how the administration shifted. And, of course, within other non-legal parts of the administration, they wanted certain lawyers over others.
For me, the most telling quote is, "And in the final analysis, John McCain made the strongest case, as a member of the Senate, when he said, When I was a prisoner, and we were prisoners, and we were tortured, and many of my comrades died, what sustained us was our belief that we were different, that our system and our values were better."
Yes, our TRUE American values are better, or should be. And I mean outside the religious issue which is in an individual's realm.
The DEMONSTRATED VALUES of the Bush Administration are those of totalitarian governments and dictators. The rights of The People and our Constitution be damned.
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